Esther - Week 5: The Tide Begins to Turn

Erin Davis: Have you ever noticed that the words “humility” and “humiliation” are a lot alike? For example, right before I stepped into the studio to record this video I dumped a cup of tea all over myself! Embarrassing. The Lord can use all kinds of things to grow us in the area of humility!

Hi, I’m Erin Davis, and this is the Women of the Bible podcast. We’ve been walking through the Bible study Esther: Trusting God’s Plan. You can get your copy at ReviveOurHearts.com/Esther. This week we’re going to zero in on Haman.

Haman was the opposite of humble. He was a man motivated by pride, and ultimately—just like the Bible warns—his pride led to his destruction. In contrast, we see Mordecai and Esther, two people of faith whom we see over and over and over respond in humility.

I have some friends who have joined me to talk through the study, so pull up a chair, grab a cup of tea—make sure the lid is on tight!—and join the conversation.

We’ve made it all the way to Esther chapter 5. A lot has happened to get us here, but this is like “the moment!” If we were watching Esther in a movie, this would be the moment when we get to see the bad guy get what he deserves. So this is a great moment in the story! But before we head there, I want to introduce you to some friends that have been joining me through this study. 

So, ladies, tell us your names (even though our listeners have been listening to us for a few episodes). I want to know your favorite season of the year, because everybody has a favorite. I have a suspicion we have different favorites! So, Venessa, tell them your name and your favorite season.

Dr. Venessa Ellen: Okay, I’m Dr. Venessa Ellen, and my favorite season . . . Well, I live in Houston; we don’t have many seasons. So mine is summer, because it’s mostly summer! But, I also like a little bit of fall, because I like to lay in the bed and watch the rain fall.

Erin: Okay, that sounds nice! Do your leaves change pretty colors in Houston?

Dr. Venessa: Yes, well, not too many colors, but they change and they fall off the trees. It’s really nice. And somebody has to go out there and clean that up!

Erin: Sure! “Somebody” . . . but not you. Love that! Carrie, tell them your name, your favorite season.

Carrie Gaul: Yes, I’m Carrie Gaul, and my favorite season is usually whatever I’m in right now. This morning it’s spring, because here in Michigan the sun is out and the grass is green, and I walked outside without a coat on! It’s warm and enjoyable! We don’t have that every season of the year here in Michigan.

Erin: I’m Erin Davis, and I live in Missouri. We do have very distinct seasons. That’s the nice thing about where I live. I’m going to be the oddball. I think winter’s my favorite. I love being inside on a rainy day. Wherever I can get a rainy day—especially a rainy day where I can stay in and read a book (or write a book!), those are my favorite kinds of days!

We all live in different parts of the country, experience different seasons, that’s so fun! We’ve been walking through the book of Esther; we’ve made it to Esther 5. Let’s review a little bit what’s happened: We meet King Xerxes; he fires his queen; he has an elaborate contest to get a new queen. Esther gets chosen through this beauty pageant. 

That’s the storyline that seems happy, even though we dug into the fact that that was one ugly beauty contest! But the undercurrent of all of that is this man Haman who has just a guttural hatred for the Jews. He has seen to it that an edict would be issued: the Jews would be annihilated. Every Jew . . . man, woman and child!

And Mordecai, Esther’s adoptive father, requests that Esther intervene because she has this position of power. And so, that’s what’s starting to happen here. She’s intervening; she’s already gone to the King. She’s granted a request, and she doesn’t immediately say, “Save the Jews!” Instead, what she says is, “I request that the king comes to a banquet.”

Carrie: So interesting! 

Erin: Why do you think she did that?

Carrie: She’s creating a plan. She has thought this through. They’ve been fasting, and she’s seeking the Lord, so she’s just wise in her timing of it. 

Dr. Venessa: You know, and that’s Ecclesiastes: there’s a right time for everything. As wives, you’ve got to know your husband. You need to know the timing. Like when he’s just getting off from work—he’s tired, he’s had a hard day—that’s not quite the time to ask to be able to spend a thousand dollars on a pair of shoes!

Erin: . . . or eleven o’clock at night! I’m notorious for trying to have a “State of the Relationship” address at eleven o’clock at night. (It doesn’t go well!) We know King Xerxes. We know the man likes to party. We meet him throwing this elaborate feast, this elaborate banquet. So Esther uses that in her approach. She has a banquet for her husband, and he is pleased. 

And he offers her another request. She, again, could have begged and pleaded, “Save my people, save my people!” but she doesn’t. Her second request is that she wants to host another banquet, and this time she’d really like him to bring Haman along. And Haman is the human villain in this story. They are going to attend this banquet, and that’s where I want to pick us up. 

Esther 5, verse 9, we see Haman’s reaction: “And Haman went out that day joyful and glad of heart.” 

This is about the only moment in the story we see Haman with a smile on his face; he’s usually scowling—but it’s short-lived. 

But when Haman saw Mordecai in the king's gate, that he neither rose nor trembled before him, he was filled with wrath against Mordecai.

So he just sees Mordecai. Mordecai doesn’t speak to Haman; Mordecai doesn’t assault Haman. Just the presence of Mordecai annoys him! It reminds me of college. Sometimes those roommate situations get to the point where it’s like: “The way . . . you . . . wash . . . your . . . spoon has enraged me!” And that is where Haman is in this story.

And if we look at verse 14, Haman’s wife Zeresh gives him some bad advice. I’m going to read verse 14. He goes home; he’s sulking. His friends, his wife are there; he’s not knowing what to do. 

Then his wife Zeresh and all his friends said to him, "Let a gallows fifty cubits high be made, and in the morning tell the king to have Mordecai hanged upon it. Then go joyfully with the king to the feast. This idea pleased Haman, and he had the gallows made."

Before we talk about those gallows, and how many cubits they were, I want to talk a minute about Zeresh. She gets mentioned just briefly here in Scripture. She’s the wife of Haman, and her advice to her husband is, “Build these really tall gallows, and go to the King and have Mordecai hung on it.” I’ve been struck as I’ve read Scripture about women that I call “husband whisperers.” 

They whisper something into the ear of their husbands, and there’s consequences for that. Here, Zeresh speaks to her husband’s pride and in ways that are really extreme and violent. I think of Job’s wife who says the line, “Curse God and die!” (Job 2:9). That is what she is canonized in all of Scripture for! It is that line she whispers in the ear of her husband.

I think of maybe, in contrast, Pilot’s wife, who says, “Have nothing to do with this man, Jesus. I’ve been tormented in a dream about him” (see Matt. 27:19). That’s all we get of her. But these women, they say something into the ear of their husbands, and it has consequences.

I wonder . . . We’re wives. We have husbands. We work with women. I wonder if you could just speak to the power of influence of a wife in her husband’s ear.

Carrie: You know, Erin, I think of Sarah and how she encouraged Abraham to just disregard Hagar: “Get her out. Get this woman and her son out!” It influenced not only Abraham but another woman, another man. Ultimately, it influences us today, right? The generational things that have come down as a result of that conflict in that relationship. 

Erin: I love that example! That was after Sarah had encouraged her husband to not believe the promises of God: “Hey! Take my handmaid and let’s take this into our own hands!” And Abraham, who’s a man of faith, does what his wife says! That is the power of influence of a wife over her husband.

Dr. Venessa: The Scripture talks about, “. . . and his heart trusts in her” (see Prov. 31:11). We have to be careful with that trust because we can lead him to do great things, or we can lead him to really, really come against things that are truthful with God.

What I like about this is, again, she knew her husband. So going back to Haman’s issue. It’s really pride. Remember, he got promoted. He gets this big promotion, and it goes to his head. Because of that, he’s mad because Mordecai won’t bow down to him. Well, I think it’s kind of like it went to his wife’s head, too.

“What do you mean you’re not bowing down to my husband!? Tell you what you ought to do . . . !” When we’re thinking about this as wives, we have to remember that even though we’re not the ones that received the promotion, sometimes we get all hyped-up about their success. Now, “I’m a CEO’s wife,” or “I’m a VP’s wife!” or something like that. 

Then we mislead them, when the gift they have, they received from God. We mislead them about that. I think that’s what’s going on here. 

Erin: It’s not just wives and husbands. We all have influence, and we all need to use that influence toward godly counsel. That’s not what Zeresh does. There’s devastating consequences, which we’ll see, for her entire household because of that. And for me it’s just a check. It’s not the point of the story; God is the point of the story. But it’s just a check that the words I say matter!

And for me as a wife, I think the lesson I’ve learned twenty years in is, “Never miss an opportunity to keep my mouth shut!” There are a lot of times that I think I could speak into a situation. I can help him see it; I can help him see the path. It’s disastrous, usually! So a cautionary tale not to be Zereshes!

But we go back to the gallows that she instructs him to make. Scripture tells us that they’re fifty cubits high. My unofficial way for measuring a cubit is from the tip of my finger to my elbow. That’s about a cubit; it’s about eighteen inches. So that’s seventy-five feet tall. There’s ten feet in a story. So we’re talking about a gallows that is eight stories high!

(If you’re impressed by my math, you shouldn’t be! That took me a long time with a calculator.) But why do you suppose that Haman and his wife and his friends conspired to build gallows that are eight stories tall? I mean, they don’t need to be eight stories tall to accomplish the grisly mission that they’re going to use these gallows for. Why eight stories tall?

Dr. Venessa: I think this goes back to that fact that this is all pride! Remember, Haman got promoted, and so his real issue is that Mordecai won’t bow to him—like everyone else. And Mordecai, of course, is saying, “I’m not gonna do that. I don’t worship you; I worship God!”

So I think it’s back to that issue of, “Let’s just build this big old edifice so the whole world can see what happens when you don’t worship my husband!” 

Erin: Yes, it’s a monument to himself . . . and a gory one at that! He wants all of the land to see, “Look how powerful I am! Look what happens to men who don’t bow to me!” And that’s where I’d like us to spend the rest of our time, wrestling with this concept of pride. It’s easy to look at Haman and go, “Man, that guy, he’s full of pride!” . . . and we know how the story ends. But all of us have pride within us. 

Pride can be difficult to define, but I’d like us to try. Do either of you have a definition for pride?

Carrie: I think of pride, Erin, as thinking of myself as better than someone else . . . maybe even better than God! It’s putting my ideas, my thoughts, my plans above His.

Erin: I think that’s right.

Dr. Venessa: Yes, my pastor/husband preached a sermon called “Understanding Pride.” He defined it as, “Pride is a mind set on self with resistance and/or a lack of submission to the will of God. He based that on Romans chapter 8, verses 5–7. 

Erin: The note I had put to myself is, “An unreasonable feeling of superiority.” That’s what you spoke to, thinking of ourselves as better than others—or even better than God! I don’t know that there’s anybody in the world that would say, “Yes! I’m better than God!” But our lives indicate that, right? 

We think, My plans are better than His; my way of living my life is better than the way He’s called me to live. For me it’s not usually even quite that big a picture. It’s the way I want to spend my day is more profitable, more fruitful than the way the Lord might have me to spend my day. Or it’s a preoccupation with self. 

Carrie, we were just chatting, and you mentioned some other heart indicators of pride. What are they?

Carrie: I heard Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth teaching recently, and she used the example of judgmentalism and a critical spirit being such an indicator of pride. But then she said, if we turn that coin over, it’s actually when we’re intimidated by others. And I’m telling you what!- The Lord just pierced my own heart, because that’s been an area of struggle in my life most of my adult life.

Certain people, certain circumstances, certain situations, I’ll just become intimidated. I had never seen that as pride in my life. It actually seemed like something you needed to grow stronger in, not something that was already big and ugly!

Erin: It sort of sounds like humility, but it isn’t.

Carrie: Oh, it is not!

Erin: Why do you think being intimidated can be an indicator of pride?

Carrie: Well, as I’ve been processing it over the last several months: when I’m intimidated, the person I’m thinking most of is myself.

Erin: Sure.

Carrie: It’s certainly not what God’s doing, or it’s not those who are involved. It often goes back to fear of man: “What are people thinking about me?”

Erin: It’s an attempt to somehow even the scales: “Oh, they seem better than me in some way, and so I’ve got to find some way to elevate myself to whatever level they seem to be.” It’s been so liberating in my own life to realize that another person’s competence is not a commentary on my incompetence . . . that somebody else could be good at something I’m not—which most people are!

I’m good at basically two things: gardening and baking bread. And everything else, I’m really not very good at, at all—and that’s okay. I think that maybe it’s evidence of humility when we can champion others instead of feeling intimidated. I love that.

Dr. Venessa: Well, you know, we worship self . . . a lot! So instead of worshipping the true and living God, we worship our self. We don’t have, as the Bible says, a “sober” assessment of ourselves (see Rom. 12:3). 

Now that can go either way, because we could think too lowly of ourselves—“Oh, I’m nothing, I’m nobody!”—or the other end, to be like Haman—“I’m everybody and all of it; bow down to me!” There’s the middle ground of God saying, “Okay, here are some strengths and here are some weaknesses. But either way, I’m the God of your life. I’ll take you through it.”

Erin: That’s right! And we can only find that middle ground by abiding in Christ. We’ll never do it on our own. Scripture has much to say about pride—we could spend a lot of time talking about pride. But I just wanted to walk our listeners through a few key verses that help us understand pride and recognize it in our own lives. Carrie, will you read us Philippians 2:2–4?

Carrie: Yes. 

Make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself. Do not merely look out for your own personal interests but also for the interests of others (NASB).

Erin: Yes, I think sometimes we can define something by understanding the reverse, and here it gives it to us: looking at others as more important than ourselves. That’s the opposite of pride. Dr. Venessa, can you read us Proverbs 8:13? It’s a verse that makes me shake in my sandals a little bit, but one we should not avoid. 

Dr. Venessa: Proverbs 8:13:

 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; pride and arrogance and the evil way and the perverted mouth, I hate.

Erin: That’s the Lord speaking. He’s saying, “Pride and arrogance I hate!” That’s not a middle ground kind of statement; it’s not wishy-washy at all! The Lord is declaring that He hates pride! James 4:6 has a similar tone. It says this, 

But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

I don’t want God to oppose me! I don’t want Him to come against me. I need grace by the dump truck load! And Scripture’s telling us that the way that we get grace by the dump truck load is humility. And the way we get the Lord to come against us—to actually oppose us—is by pride. We see that in Haman.

Haman had everything he needed to have--humanly speaking--to make this thing happen. He had the power, he had the authority, he had the resources, apparently, to build an eight-story-high gallows, and yet the Lord works against him. And, again, Haman gives us a picture of what it’s like to be motivated by something other than the fear of the Lord.

Haman is motivated by pride, and in contrast, what the Lord calls the people of God to is humility. My favorite definition for humility (I’m not sure where it came from) is that “humility is not thinking less of myself; humility is thinking of myself less.”

So it’s not that “Eeyore mentality” you mentioned: “Oh, man, I’m the worst! I’ve nothing to offer!” 

Carrie: Eeyore!

Erin: I think that might be . . . It’s not humility. I don’t what it is exactly. But it is what Scripture calls us to do to elevate others instead of ourselves. These characters are human beings, they’re fallible, they’re not perfect, they’re not supposed to be prototypes for anything. But they give us glimpses of different ways that we can live.

I’m wondering how you see humility in the lives of Mordecai and Esther, specifically, throughout this story? 

Dr. Venessa: We can take it many different ways, but when we look at humility it’s “humbling ourselves under the mighty hand of God”(see 1 Peter 5:6). So no matter what your circumstances are (we talked about God being sovereign), God’s still in control of the circumstances.

I think when we really look at this, when I teach it, I tend to talk about how this really was an issue of racism—it really was. Haman was trying to do away with all the Jews. Now, Mordecai and Esther could have gotten enraged about this issue of racism and focused on that, but instead they took a humble approach and said, “You know what? It doesn’t matter. God’s going to deal with you. We’re just going to trust God, and we’re going to do whatever is the next right thing to do.” 

Because sometimes when you have an issue that’s such a hotbed—like racism—you want to do what feels right in the moment to avenge what you feel is going on to you. Not that we’re justifying racism by any means, but we’re saying, “God’s still in control of that.”

Look at Joseph and all the things that happened to him and how God turned it around for his good! So I think it’s better when we leave room for the wrath of God. That’s humility—leaving room for the wrath of God. 

Erin: Yes, and Esther certainly had opportunity to stomp her feet and pound her fists and declare, “This is an injustice against my people!” And Mordecai, too. Mordecai has a voice at least at the city gate, at the palace gate. But they don’t do that; they respond in humility.

Dr. Venessa: Yes. And they also don’t sit back and let it happen, meaning do nothing about the racism. They did the next right thing. 

Erin: Sure. And they ultimately trusted the outcome to God.

Dr. Venessa: Exactly!

Erin: Carrie, how do you see humility in Esther and Mordecai?

Carrie: I love Esther’s humility as she just responds to Mordecai’s leadership as she goes in to the king’s palace. Mordecai is out there walking in front of the king’s gate day after day after day, and he’s instructing her. She doesn’t identify who she is as a Jew immediately, but then later we see it come back around.

As he says to go in to the king, Esther says, “Will you go and tell the people to fast for me?” And so we see that honoring and that respect, that humility in their relationship together.

Erin: I hesitate to put it through our cultural lens, because it was a different culture, but man, she could have played a victim. She had been victimized, and she could have leaned into that bitterness instead. She could have said, “You’re not my dad” to Mordecai, because he wasn’t. She could have resisted his authority. She was now in the palace; she didn’t have to listen to his authority.

I think listening to authority, responding to authority, is a sign of humility. We just see them, at every step of the way, choosing humility . . . which I think is a response to resting in the providence of God. I wonder how the Lord has taught you humility? Because He’s certainly teaching me humility, and it’s a hard lesson that I feel like I’m constantly in that school.

What has the Lord used in your own lives to move you towards humility? 

Dr. Venessa: Well, I can say that being a pastor’s wife has been interesting. It’s almost feeling like you’ve got a target on your back. I’ve said I’m going to write this book: I’m Trapped in a Fish Bowl . . . Help, I Can’t Swim! It is really a serious issue of walking with people who, like you said earlier, are not perfect.

I can remember a time when there was a hotbed of discontent in our church. I remember I got so sick I couldn’t come out. It was almost like God had me on the Isle of Patmos. I was like, “But I want to go get in the middle of this. I want to tell the truth; I want to speak!”

And God was like, “Nope. Say nothing. Lay here, humble yourself, let Me deal with it.” It was a tough time! It’s very hard to keep my mouth closed.

Erin: Yes, that’s a great example. I think the Lord can use sickness or weakness so many times to bring humility. He’s done that often in my own life. Carrie, what has the Lord used in your own life to teach you humility?

Carrie: One of the things, Erin, that I shared earlier, is just in this whole area of intimidation. The Lord is just teaching me that He weeps over the years that that was a part of my life. It so paralyzed me, really, in so many ways. He weeps over what was lost, but that’s a forgiven sin. And so, learning to walk humbly with Him, knowing that reality, and yet honoring Him and knowing the days ahead what He has planned. It just brings hope.

Erin: I’ve often said that there’s a reason why the words “humble” and “humiliation” are so similar, because the Lord uses humiliation in my life often to teach me humility. In the moment, I never like it, but I want to be humble. And I will never get to humility on my own; I just won’t!

I’m an expert “navel-gazer.” I’ve got a Master’s Degree in pride. I’m obsessed with myself—in my flesh—and the Lord humbles me. He’s used my home to do that. Nobody in my home thinks I’m a very big deal. They love me, but they’re not going to be impressed by any show of pride. I live with all men: one husband, four sons.

I have to go to my friends’ homes with girls for anyone to tell me I’m cute or my hair looks good. That’s just not the language of my home, and the Lord has used that to help me get over myself. I want to be “over myself.” I hate my own pride but cannot separate myself from it. I need Jesus to do that!

So if you’re listening and the Lord’s using humiliation or heartache or sickness or turmoil to bring about humility in your heart, I won’t promise you that’s fun or easy . . . it’s neither. But none of us want to have the downfall that Haman had, that his pride caused.

So let’s rapidly walk through the rest of the story. The king calls Haman in, says he wants to honor a man and how should he do it? And Haman has a couple of suggestions. Carrie, do you have Esther 6:6–14 for us?

Carrie: I do.

So Haman came in and the king said to him, "What is to be done for the man whom the king desires to honor?" And Haman said to himself, "Whom would the king desire to honor more than me?" Then Haman said to the king, "For the man whom the king desires to honor, let them bring a royal robe which the king has worn, and the horse on which the king has ridden, and on whose head a royal crown has been placed; and let the robe and the horse be handed over to one of the king’s most noble princes and let them array the man whom the king desires to honor and lead him on horseback through the city square, and proclaim before him, ‘Thus it shall be done to the man whom the king desires to honor."

Then the king said to Haman, "Take quickly the robes and the horse as you have said, and do so for Mordecai the Jew, who is sitting at the king’s gate; do not fall short in anything of all that you have said." So Haman took the robe and the horse, and arrayed Mordecai, and led him on horseback through the city square, and proclaimed before him, "Thus it shall be done to the man whom the king desires to honor."

Then Mordecai returned to the king’s gate. But Haman hurried home, mourning, with his head covered. Haman recounted to Zeresh his wife and all his friends everything that had happened to him. Then his wise men and Zeresh his wife said to him, "If Mordecai, before whom you have begun to fall, is of Jewish origin, you will not overcome him, but will surely fall before him."

While they were still talking with him, the king’s eunuchs arrived and hastily brought Haman to the banquet which Esther had prepared (vv. 6–14).

Erin: Now, what is going on in Haman’s world!? There’s this moment where the king says, “I want to honor somebody.” And Haman in his pride says, “Well, that’s got to be me. Who needs honor more than me?!” And so he gives him this long list of suggestions for what he could do: a horse, a crown, a parade, and it turns out it’s for Mordecai!

So Haman runs home, tail tucked, head bowed in shame. And Zeresh and his friends have changed their tune. Instead of saying, “Hang Mordecai!” They say, “Uh-oh! If Mordecai is a Jew, you are not going to triumph in this situation.”

I want to read us Proverbs 16:18: 

Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall. 

Haman is the poster child for this. It’s his pride that gets him in this situation, and this part of the story feels so much like a movie script to me . . . because Haman is ultimately hanged on the gallows that he constructed for Mordecai!

I mean, it feels like the story comes full-circle. I want us to celebrate that, I want us to celebrate what the Lord did, but also we’ve got to know that pride exists in every human heart.

Dr. Venessa and Carrie: Yes!

Erin: It has existed in every human heart since the Garden of Eden, when sin broke us at our cell level, and we have to combat against it. Practically, I would love for us to help women think of some ways that they can grow in humility.

The Lord will do what He does. He may put us in a sick bed—like you mentioned Venessa. He may have us in seasons of humiliation like I mentioned. The Lord will find ways to make us grow in humility, but how can we, as women who don’t want to see Haman’s end, how can we grow in humility?

Carrie: I’m just inviting the Lord to show me the areas, because as we’ve talked about, so many times we don’t even see it in our own lives. So asking the Lord, “Show me.” I’m asking friends that I have that kind of relationship with, “Would you be honest with me when you see it?” You know, inviting that openness and honesty.

Dr. Venessa: Yes, and I think it’s taking the time throughout your day to ask yourself how much are you saying, “Me, me, me, me, me?! I have a wonderful plan for my life. It’s all about me!” And to see when we are not considering the interests of others. I think we read that Scripture earlier. We need to stop and say, “Okay, God, I am not God! I am His creation, and I need to consider the interests of others.”

If God has not allowed me to have something, maybe it’s not for my good. And if He has allowed me to have something, like Haman, then I need to walk in it in humbleness, knowing that whatever I have, I received from the Lord and it’s not really of myself. Even if it was due to my giftedness, where did I get it from? It came from the Lord!

So I think your road to humility is constantly assessing yourself all day long, moment by moment.

Erin: Yep. Here’s a real practical one, and it’s how the Lord continues to grow me in this area: I open my Bible . . . and I open it the next day and the next day and the next day. It’s a sword! That’s how it describes itself: the Word of God is a sword. 

And in my life it’s a sword that cuts away everything that is not of the Lord. And then the Lord sweetly stitches me back up and sews into me things that are of Him. I once heard somebody say, “You can sit in church for forty years and just get meaner!” That’s probably true; we know that person. But I don’t know that you can open your Bible every day and grow in pride. I think that it just will cut the pride out of your life and out of your heart. 

We only have one more session to go in this Bible study; we hope you’re following along with us. But you don’t you dare close your Bible at the end of this study and think you’re done until we tell you what the next study is or there’s the next Bible study at your church.

I think the way we grow in humility is, we open the Word of God every day.

Dr. Venessa: Yes, and I think there’s a good resource; it’s called From Pride to Humility by Stuart Scott. It’s a great resource. Because we can open the Bible and sometimes think we know what it means—because we’re prideful—and sometimes we need a little help from guys who have studied this for a long, long, long time and can help us out. So I think that’s a good resource!

Erin: I love that suggestion. Thanks!

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