A Porn-Free Life Is Possible, with Rosie Makinney and Crystal Renaud Day

Is your husband addicted to pornography? Is porn a secret problem for you? If you have lost hope and perspective when it comes to the battle against pornography, this episode of Grounded will empower you to stay in the fight. Guests Rosie Makinney and Crystal Renaud Day share how you can engage the issue of porn head-on and provide practical steps to help you experience true freedom in Christ.

Connect with Rosie

Instagram: @fightforloveministries
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/FightForLoveFellowship
Website: https://fightforloveministries.org/

Connect with Crystal

Instagram: @crystalrenaud 
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CrystalRenaud
Website: https://livingonpurposekc.com/

Episode Notes

• Fight for Love Facebook group.
• Fight for Love book by Rosie Makinney.
• “God Hears Your Cry for Rescue” video with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth.
• Episodes on pornography, addictions, and abuse:
  • https://www.reviveourhearts.com/podcast/revive-our-hearts/topics/pornography-addictions-abuse/?utm_source=grounded&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=grounded+podcast&se=RZZPD
  • Articles on pornography, addictions, and abuse.
• Happily Even After book by Dannah Gresh.
• “Need Help Lovin' That Man: Training Our Hearts for Relationship” conference session with Bob and Dannah Gresh.

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Portia Collins: Pornography is a billion-dollar industry, a national epidemic. It's seeping into our homes and taking individuals captive. But faith-filled women don't hide, we must engage this issue head on, armed with a right understanding of biblical truth and our roles first and foremost as daughters of the Most High God, but also as wives and mothers. I'm Portia Collins. This is Grounded, and we're here to hand out hope and perspective.

Dannah Gresh: Amen. That we are. I'm Dannah Gresh. And you know, today's topic is one in which many in the Church have lost hope and perspective. We're here to put it back in place where it belongs. Roughly 70% of Christian men and 30% of Christian women are facing a fierce battle with internet pornography. That's people in the Church, friends. I think many of them are believing lies like these: It's normal. Everybody does it. I've tried, and I just simply can't overcome it. Or this one: I think it enhances my life with my spouse.

Portia: I've heard the last one a lot! Well, our guests today don't tolerate lies. They are women of God who fought for integrity and won. 

Dannah: Amen. 

Portia: Their blistering stories will give you hope. Their biblical sensitivity to the topic will give you perspective. 

Dannah: Yeah, they're both brilliant thinkers and their understanding of the science of porn and the brain is going to be a useful tool in any battle you or someone you love may be facing. 

And listen, I just want to look you in the eye. Because if you are that person, or you're married to that person, or you're raising that person who's fighting a battle with pornography; if you're loving someone who's using pornography, I know you are likely scared. You're possibly angry, maybe anxious. I know, because I've been there. And our prayer is that this episode is going to empower you to take the next step with wisdom and confidence because you're walking it out with Jesus. He's by your side.

Portia: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I can already see the women are tuned in, in the comment section. This is going to be a powerful episode. I'm excited that Rosie Makinney from the award-winning podcast Fight for Love is here. She wrote the book on Helping a Woman Fight for Her Husband Instead of with Him. Amen. And you simply will not believe when and how she found out that her husband was struggling. So, stay tuned. 

Dannah: Yes, it's quite a story. 

Portia: Yes. And Crystal Renaud Day is here too. She fought her own battle with pornography for ten years. It began when she was a teenager. Today she is living in freedom. Hallelujah! She's the founder and director of She Recovery. 

Dannah: Yeah, these women today are our good news stories. You know, we always like to start out with good news. It is going to be a whole good news episode. Portia, this is a bucket list episode of Grounded for me. I have special connections to both of these women. I love them both dearly and fiercely. And for that reason, Portia girl, I've asked, can I do both of the interviews today? 

Portia: Yes, of course! Absolutely Dannah Kay. I am happy to get a front row seat today.

Dannah: I am happy that Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth is going to bring some truth to counter any lies you may be believing. Stick around for a Scripture snack that reminds you that if you're crying out to God to be rescued from porn or anything else, God hears you. That's going to be when we get grounded in God's Word today.

I want to say this if you join us weekly, you know we dealt with this topic last week too. That was intentional. Last week we focused on how to help your kids. And this week we're turning to the task of helping our husbands and helping you. We believe that this topic of battling and overcoming pornography is worthy of a doubleheader.

Portia: Well, let's get to it. We want to hear from you, Grounded sisters. So, if you are joining us for the live recording, tell us how you have won or how you are winning a battle with porn. Tell us in the comments on YouTube and Facebook. I am watching. I've been looking down at my phone already because I know that there are so many women who are tuned in. I'm watching, and I may read your comment at the end. So, listen, your story might be the one to set someone free today.

Dannah: Exactly. Thanks, Portia. 

Well, Rosie Makinney is our first good news story of the day. She's the founder of Fight for Love ministries. She equips women all over the world with the faith and the facts to fight against porn addiction and its effects on her family. She is a fighter. She is a winner, and I adore this woman. Rosie Makinney, welcome to Grounded.

Rosie Makinney: Thank you for having me, Dannah. It's such a pleasure to be here this morning. 

Dannah: I can tell you the first time I heard your name. Dr. Juli Slattery said, “Have you heard of Rosie Makinney?” And she said this must be somebody I need to know. And I tuned in right away to your podcast and your work. I am so delighted to have you, Rosie. You learned to help women fight pornography in their marriage on the hot pavement of life. When did you discover that your husband had a problem with pornography? 

Rosie: So, I actually knew going into marriage that he'd struggled in the past. We would have that conversation. But in my naivety, I thought, Okay, here's a Christian man who says it's been a problem, but he doesn't want it. He's acknowledging it's a bad thing.He's not making it my fault, and he wants to get rid of it. So, I was like, “Okay, we're gonna get married. This is not going to be a problem. We’re both on the same page.” But very soon, like honeymoon soon into the marriage, it was very clear that he was demonstrating symptoms of pornography use I'd seen before.

Dannah: So, you said honeymoon soon. Did you say honeymoon soon?

Rosie: Honeymoon soon. Yes. I haven't got a lot of pictures of that one up. Here's the thing about pornography. What we don't know, and what we don't talk about is the way that it manifests in the rest of someone's life. Their brains have been hijacked. They are literally not as happy. Their baseline of happiness has been dropped. So, they need their drug to be happy. So basically, they're just grumpy all the time. 

In my case, yes. It rolled over into anger, into criticism, into resentment, into blaming, into crazy making. And I'm like, “Ah, I've been here before.” Because here's the thing, Dannah, before getting married, before even becoming a Christian, I've done this before. 

This wasn't my first rodeo. I had been in a long-term relationship with an unrepentant porn addict who blamed me, who shamed me. I tried everything that I could think of, everything I've been told, trying to compete with it, trying to ignore it, trying to forgive him, trying to overlook it. Nothing works. So that all fell apart, and it was very painful. 

Even though I knew going into marriage that this had been a problem in the past, I've got a guy who said, “I don't want it. I don't like it. It's not right.” And I thought, Well, that's gonna make all the difference, isn't it? 

Dannah: Right. 

Rosie: But it didn't because the underlying root was still there. He hadn't dealt with that. It was coming out. We get married; we start being intimate. And, you know, it's like the demons were released. Who have I married?

Dannah: Who have I married?

Rosie: Who have I married? I'd like to say it was because I was very healthy, with good self-esteem. I’ve got a good sense of self-worth. I read. I'm not taking this. But it wasn't; it was sheer panic. “I've done this, and I can't do this again.” So, something just rose up. I think it was holy indignation because I know there's nothing I can do to make this go away. 

So, you can choose: You can have the pornography and all crazy, horrible behavior, or you can have me, but you can't have both, because I can't do this again. So, I did the right thing in terms of setting boundaries. But I only did it because I was desperate. 

Dannah: Well, God will use almost anything, even our desperation, to get us to do the right thing sometimes. So, you drew a line in the sand and you said, “No.” Rosie, a lot of women are afraid to do that. They're believing in lies, like all men do this, or it's just not that big a deal. What would you say to that woman?

Rosie: Well, first of all, I'd have huge compassion, because my situation was different. Although, in terms of public failure, let's have a marriage of eight days and I was ready to call it. I hadn't gotten years of history. I hadn't got years of betrayal, deception, I hadn't got invested with kids and stuff. 

So in some ways, it was easier for me to draw that line. I want to validate that it's not easy. It's really not easy. That's the whole basis of my ministry, helping people in that horrible stuck place between the discovery of “I know this is a problem,” and actually getting into recovery and asking for help. 

Generally wives stay there for about ten years, or they have in the past, historically, when we weren't talking about this, but it's getting quicker. Wives are getting educated. Wives are getting empowered. Wives are getting supported and validated and all that good stuff. So they're able to draw that firm line in the sand earlier, which is what is the best thing for them, their marriages, their hearts, their children, their marriage, and their porn addict spouse.

Dannah: Yeah, don't you think that drawing that line in the sand if you don't do it, you're just delaying doing it. And you're just allowing things to get harder and more painful. I mean, eventually, it has to be done, because this isn't gonna go away on its own.

Rosie: Absolutely I love that you, you mentioned that it escalates. So, we think that by putting our heads in the sand because it's just too horrible, and we don't want to think about it, and we can't even think about the ramifications if they won't get help. It's so very hard. 

But here's the thing, you're not staying. It's progressive. You're not staying still. Things will escalate. His behavior will get worse, either in time, in terms of duration, that he's acting out, or more dangerous acting out places. Your heart is getting year after year after year of trauma and being stuck in this crazy cycle. You genuinely believe that when he says he wants to give it up, he wants to give it up, because he does. 

So, you believe that, and you go, “Okay, we can do this.” And then he falls because you need more than willpower; you need to tackle the root of it. So, it's absolutely crazy because you want to believe him, because you genuinely believe it because he genuinely believes it. But you go round and round and round. It's so debilitating. It's so demoralizing. It just destroys you from the inside out. And who can you tell? Who can you share it with? No one's bringing you a casserole because your life is falling apart. You have to keep it because there's such shame about it.

Dannah: There really is. 

Rosie: Which is why I'm so grateful that you're hitting this topic. You know, let's just talk about it.

Dannah: Well, let's talk about the shame as your husband began to seek help and community, erasing some of the shame for him, which I think is one of the big battles of pornography. If you could dismantle the shame, you could start to have victory. But you began to experience a desire for the same kind of community that he had. So, you did something about it that I've never heard another woman do. What was it?

Rosie: Again, desperation. I was stuck on a different continent. I'd moved from the U.K. to the U.S. I had nobody like nobody and making friends when you're completely devastated because your marriage, your brand-new marriage has imploded, is not the best way to make friends. So, I had nobody. My husband would go off to his groups. He'd come back buoyed up and restored and able to keep going, and I'm like, “Where's my group? Like, “I'm dying here, too.” 

And then we went to a retreat. From that I got a few phone numbers. And I'm like, “This is so what I need.” So, I sent him to his meeting with little notes. I said, “Give these to your guys.” They gave them to their wives or their partners. And it just said, “I need help. I'm a wife of one of the guys in your partner/husbands’ group. Do you fancy meeting up? Do you fancy talking about it with someone who understands?” Then I put a date and a time and put it out there. 

And on that first day, I had three other women come round. We just sat on the sofa. It was like life had started again. Before it felt like some surreal artsy film that somehow, I'd slipped into when nothing made sense and nobody understood. I was completely on my own. Then life started again. I got women who could see me and hear me. I got them, and they got me. That was the start of it. I was like, “Ah, this is what I need. I just need other sisters who get it.” So we met. Then I started another group, and then like 16 women came and I'm like, “I think I'm onto something here. We need each other. This is the only way we're gonna get through this.”

Dannah: I love it. And today, those little notes you sent with your husband to that small group thing, “Hey, are there any other women out there that need help?” has turned into a huge Facebook group, private Facebook group community. I'm a part of that community. You have women all over the world finding that there's someone to talk to, that you can talk about your husband with respect and hurt at the same time, that you can love him and be angry. You can desire to press into the relationship and desire to rescue the relationship. The title of your book is Fight for Love. I love that. 

Rosie, speak to me about what God's Word says about pornography. Why do you think that a woman needs to draw that line in the sand? What does God say? 

Rosie: That's a great question. Okay, so here's a foundational Scripture that I discovered when researching my book, because I know experientially boundaries are the way. It’s the only thing that makes any difference. I know that that's God's heart for us to be in loving, God-honoring relationships. 

So, where's the Scripture? I came across 1 Peter 3. I'm going to read it because this verse has been used to keep women held down and stuck in abusive relationships, just leaning in harder, leaning in harder, leaning for years and years and years. But then I discovered something about this Scripture that I want to share with you because it's the most joyous, joyous discovery ever. 

So, I'm going to read it and then I'm going to explain it a little. Okay, so 1 Peter 3, “In the same way, wives submit yourselves to your husbands so that even if some do disobey the word, they may be won over without a word.” By the way, do you know what I’m going to do, Dannah?” I'm gonna put my glasses on here. Here we go. Real life. “They may be one over without a word by the way the wives live when they observe your pure reverence lives.” 

And sometimes that reverence is is translated as “respectful or in fear.” So, wives try harder and harder and harder. I'm being respectful. I'm trying to stuffed down my emotions. I'm trying to look the other way. I'm trying to just press in, even though I'm dying, and he's getting worse, and our families are getting destroyed. I'm going to keep leaning and leaning and leaning in. 

Here's the thing. I had to go to a friend of my husband's who was a Greek scholar. I'm like, “Help me Help me. This verse seems to be saying everything that I don't believe.” It can't be God's Word, cannot confuse us. It cannot contradict what you just know to be right. Like, you don't enable someone who's in habitual sin. You have to put a loving firm boundary there. 

So, he came back and said, “Well, the problem is that very last little word, which is in fear.” It's not the wives who are in fear, it's the husbands. So, let me read it. Because, you know, Greek words that are adjacent don't necessarily go together. It's to do with the approach of the prefix and the suffix. 

So, here's the important part. “Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands that even if some do not obey the word, they without a word may be won by the conduct of their wives when they in fear observe your chaste conduct.” This isn't about your behavior. It's about them being in fear. When you hold the line and have chaste conduct, this is not staying in our household. We are not having a house full of pornography. You're not filling my head, my bed, any of it, because my primary submission is to God and to God alone. And He's saying, “Stand firm and that will put the guy into a state of great reverential terror.” 

Dannah: Amen. 

Rosie: I was like, “Amen. Hallelujah. The word of God is saying, “Put a loving boundary, that was the best way to love him. It's the best way to honor Me. You're not trying to get over the evil in your marriage. You're trying to get it out of your marriage.”

Doesn't that just give you tingles? Like the Word of God is telling me? “Okay, let's do it.” I think once wives understand that, that's what it's about. They go, Right. Okay, yeah. I know what to do.” Because we've been trying for so long, we've been trying to do the right thing, to do the godly thing, to just to lean in more. And it's like, yes, lean in. But what that looks like, setting those boundaries and giving everybody a chance.

Dannah: Yeah, God's Word is full of boundaries. It starts with the Ten Commandments; those are boundaries that He's given to His people. And He said, “You will respect these.” God put boundaries on that tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It is a holy thing to have boundaries against sin—to do that lovingly, not with bitterness is hard, but it is possible.

Rosie, give us some hope. Fast forward to today. Tell us, is your husband, Mark free? What's his life look like?

Rosie: Totally. So much hope. I mean, I'm like the poster child of an unredeemable situation. That's why I can do this and just do it so boldly. It's because I'm talking to the woman that I know has tried everything, and it looks totally hopeless. But have you tried boundaries? Have you tried boundaries? Because that's the only thing that works. 

Yes, Mark is free now. And for the past thirteen or fourteen years, he has been helping other guys. He's been helping other guys get free.

Dannah: Praise God. 

Rosie: I'll be downstairs listening to him talk to a group of wives and going, “God, You are amazing. He's up there empathizing, validating, helping them put boundaries in and stand firm and recognize their worth through their identity in Christ, not what their husband is telling them. And it is a miracle. It is a daily miracle. And we've got two boys and we've raised them in a house that's porn free. That was not the trajectory of my life whatsoever. 

But He's done such a miracle that I can give hope. And even if your marriage does not survive because your husband remains unrepentant and refuses and remains disobedient to God. You can still have hope. You can still follow God, pursue God for yourself and your family. There is huge hope, and you can wake up with peace and joy, which is something that many women in this situation can't even imagine at this point. It is possible. Just remember, your primary submission is to God and you won’t go wrong. 

Dannah: Rosie, thank you for being with us, today. You are my dear sister in Christ. I love the courageous work that you do. I love being a part of your Fight for Love Facebook page. It fills me with hope and perspective when I need it most. 

I hope that if you're listening today and your husband is fighting a battle with pornography, you'll get a copy of Rosie's book of Fight for Love. You can get it anywhere books are sold. Rosie, tell us about your website. What's the address? Where can women find you?

Rosie: It's FightforLoveMinistries.com So everything’s called “Fight for Love”—the book, the podcast, the whole thing.

Dannah: It's good branding. I love it. I love you too, Rosie. 

Rosie: Thank you. 

Dannah: God bless you. Thanks for being with us on Grounded today.

Portia: That is good news. Dannah, thank you so much. Dannah, you probably heard me in your ear saying amen.

Dannah: I did hear your amen. I heard the hallelujah happiness happening in your room.

Portia: I already know this. Some chains are being broken, and I can't wait for us to get to some of these comments a little bit later. But in the meantime, Sister, you may be sitting there thinking, I'm the one struggling with porn. Is there hope for me? Yes. All right. That's the first thing I want to tell you. Yes, there is hope. And we will fill you up with it when Dannah has a conversation with Crystal Renaud Day in just a few short minutes. But first, you may also be wondering, Does God hear my cry for freedom? Well, here's Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth to get us grounded in God's Word with the little scripture nugget.

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: Pharaoh was more and more controlling, more and more cruel, more and more demanding, and the people of Israel were in greater hardship. So, verse 23 tells us that the people of Israel groaned because of their slavery and cried out for help. 

Their cry for rescue from slavery came up to God, and God heard their groaning. God remembered His covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob—the people of Israel, His own chosen people. God knew. God knows. 

God's people here find themselves in desperate, dire circumstances. They cry out for help. They don't know what else to do. They have no other options, and God hears their cry. God pays attention to His people. He deals with them in mercy. He is a covenant keeping God who then and now is attentive to His children. He knows what they're going through. He doesn't always spare them from painful situations and circumstances. 

And that's because God is writing a story. It's His story for the good of His people, and for His glory. In the midst of writing this story, God is building trust in His people so they will trust Him and not any human means of escape or deliverance.

Portia: Amen. We must trust God above any and all means of deliverance. Now, that does not mean that we don't press into community or use Christian counseling. But it means that we recognize that God alone is our only true hope. 

And so, things like community and Christian counseling and all of those external support tools, those things are only that, tools. God is our Deliverer. Don't forget that today. No matter what battle you're facing, remember that He is our Deliverer. 

Speaking of deliverance, God delivered our next guest from porn addiction. I'm ready to hear about it. Dannah, you got Crystal in the wings?

Dannah: I do. Crystal Renaud Day is a trailblazer in giving a voice to women who are battling sexual addiction. The founder of She Recovery, she leads a team of people offering biblical coaching and counseling to women and young women. Hi, Crystal, we're so glad to have you today on Grounded.

Crystal Renaud Day: Hi, Dannah. Good to see you.

Dannah: Hey, Crystal, when did you first see pornography?

Crystal: I first saw pornography at the age of ten years old.

Dannah: You were a baby. 

Crystal: I was a baby, just like last week talking about how to protect your kids. I was one of those kids. You know, my parents did everything they were supposed to do or should have done. It still got me at the age of ten because of an older sibling. So, I never expected that that day would turn into ten years, but it did. It was a battle my entire adolescence.

Dannah: At what point did you realize that this is an addiction? I have a problem?

Crystal: Yeah, you know, I think in some ways, because I was a teenager, I didn't understand exactly that. I was kind of helpless to this behavior until I was fifteen or sixteen years old. 

I was given the opportunity to go to summer camp with my church. I realized at that moment that I'm leaving, I'm leaving the house for a considerable amount of time for the first time. I was kind of faced with I'm gonna have to not watch porn while I'm gone. It was kind of this epiphany of this is actually controlling my life.

Dannah: Wow. Now, when you're saying that, I'm realizing so many of the stories I've heard of both men and women, they were ten, eleven, twelve, nine, seven years old. They didn't really know what was going on. I mean, they might have felt bad about what they were looking at. But they also knew that afterwards they felt good because they had been medicated. They didn't understand the science of whatever was going on in their life—their parents divorced, the bullying at the school, the struggling academically, all those things kind of got medicated. 

And until you're a certain age, you don't really realize this is something I need to deal with. And you're saying, when you thought of not having it was when you realized, oh! Was that your turning point?

Crystal: It was my turning point in the realization that I had a problem. I was still very isolated. I didn't know who to talk to or who to turn to. And so, it wasn't a turning point in terms that I woke up the next morning and I was heading into recovery. Certainly I walked into more shame, more guilt, more frustration, because I didn't know who to talk to. I didn't know how to tell someone, being that I was a girl. I hadn't heard of any other women in my life or outside my life ever having a porn problem. And so, there was that kind of compounded shame on top of that.

Dannah: Wow. What many women listening right now are saying, “That's how I feel? I don't know who I could tell.” There's nobody. What would you say to her?

Crystal: I would say you're in a completely different situation than I was when I was fifteen because of the things that have been created virtually and through counseling and different things. I would just want her to know there are many people that you can tell, and that you're not the only woman who watches porn. 

You mentioned at the beginning of the segment that 30% of Christian women are watching porn, 37% of porn traffic worldwide is women on average. This is not something that is unique to women or unique to men. Rather, its habits cross gender lines, cross faith lines, all of these things. And so, you're not in some bubble, that you will exist on your own.But there is hope because there are others who are sharing their stories. There's hope because Christ delivers us, and you can be delivered.

Dannah: Amen. How did Jesus meet you in your battle? How did He deliver you?

Crystal: I was tremendously blessed, because even though I struggled for almost ten years, my experience into recovery and wholeness was through another woman, through kind of divine intervention. It was a lady from my church who just kind of shared her story with me. Oftentimes in the church we share our stories, and it's very pretty. It's very, you know, I came to Jesus, and I didn't have any trouble. We just don't talk about the hard things that we've gone through, that have actually brought us to the cross, have brought us to our knees in need of a Savior.

And so she did. She spoke to me in a way that said, “I had a struggle with pornography.” She shared her story with me and supported me on a path of healing, a path of empowerment as well, understanding that I have a choice with my behavior. Even though I feel powerless, there is still a choice to be made to continue down that path. 

And so, the choice is, are you going to get help, like Jesus with the woman at the well? Well, are you going to get up? Do you want to be well? Just make that hard decision to stand up, pick up your mat, and walk into your healing. That's really what I had to do. 

That didn't just look like immediate deliverance, even though I wish it had. But it looked like counseling, it looked like therapy. It looked like getting to the root of why I struggled. It looked like accountability, confession, being in community with other women. That's really what brought me into faith, into healing, but also fully and completely surrendering to Christ. The things that I was longing for in my little girl heart that I didn't have when I was a child, and getting that from my heavenly Father, even if I couldn’t get it from my earthly father. So that really was kind of my process, so to speak.

Dannah: That is beautiful. I love your heart. I love how you went before so many other women in your transparency. You are one of the trailblazers that's made it safe for women to find safe places as they battled pornography. 

One of the things I hear a lot, Crystal, from single women . . . There are a lot of Christian single women who believe that pornography or masturbation and maybe both are their sexual outlet as single women. What would you say God's Word has to say about that?

Crystal: I think it is regardless of marital status. What we know about pornography in particular is that it is wrong, because it's wrong from the fact that it's sexual immorality. But it's also wrong because of what it is. It's human trafficking. It's engaging in somebody else's torture, somebody else's abuse, somebody else's brokenness, that we are engaging for our delight and our pleasure. That's something that we really have to understand about pornography. 

When it comes to masturbation, obviously, God is not indifferent to your fact that you are a sexual being. He created you to have a sexual experience in the right context of marriage that is going to be between a husband and a wife. But He's not indifferent to the fact that you struggle with your sexuality and you struggle with desire. You struggle with these things because it's how He made you. But He didn't make you to be singularly sexual. He created you to be a whole person,—body, mind and spirit—and to practice self-control. 

Something to keep in mind about singleness and marriage when it comes to sex, this a right to sex or this feeling of entitlement because I'm single, and God hasn’t that brought me a man yet . . . While I was single until I was thirty-three. I met my husband at thirty-two and got married a year later. And of course in terms of church culture, that was ancient. It felt like there wasn't hope for me, but he came finally. 

But even if he didn't, I am still whole, without my sexual self. I am still whole, without fulfilling my sexual needs. I'm still whole as a single woman. Because that's how God made me. He made me to be whole in Him. Even as a married woman, I am whole outside of my spouse. It’s really important to make that distinction. 

But I also think it's really important that men understand that marriage does not equal nonstop sex or sex without hindrance. There's still a need for self-control. There is still a need to practice self-control in marriage, because your partner is not just your sex toy. Your partner is your partner; your spouse is your spouse. Your sexual needs actually come after his because you're supposed to desire to make his desires be met, and he's supposed to make your desires be met. It's not about getting your desires met, but fulfilling his and him to fulfill yours. And so, understanding how to practice self-control in singleness will make that marriage all the more better. 

Dannah: I love that good advice. Well, today, you are that safe place that many women turn to when they are battling pornography. They've never told anyone, and they need to tell someone. So, tell us how they can reach you if they need to today. 

Crystal: Absolutely. Everything about us, our community, our groups, counseling and coaching, you can learn about at SheRecovery.com. We'd love to see you there.

Dannah: I love it. Thank you for being with us, Crystal. Thank you for blazing the trail of sexual integrity for women.

Crystal: You're very welcome. It's been my honor.

Dannah: More good news. Just so much good news. Thank you, Crystal. Thank you, Rosie. I feel hopeful, don’t you, Portia?

Portia: Yes, I feel hopeful. You know, something that Crystal said that I think it just kind of hit me was you’ve got to put some feet on your face. Yep. That's something that I love to tell Emmy sometimes. I was like, “I know want to do good, but Mama needs you to put the feet on your face. So whatever you believe in, we’ve got to walk that thing out.” That's kind of what I heard Crystal say. I know that she is really giving a lot of women hope. I've still been looking at these comments, and they are coming in.

We may as well have just titled this episode “The Good News Episode.” 

Dannah: I agree. 

Portia: I've got here some good stuff. So, your life becomes a good news story. First, we have entire pages that Revive Our Hearts dedicated to podcast episodes and articles on pornography and addiction. And so, we're going to drop those links in the episode notes and in the chat so that you could check them out—tons of resources right there at your fingertips. 

And earlier, Dannah alluded to the fact that a good news story of her own that God has written and is writing. It’s a beautiful redemption story in her marriage as her husband, Bob, has battled pornography. She writes about it in a book she released last year titled, Happily Even After and the subtitle, Let God Redeem Your Marriage. So, we're going to drop a link to that for you to check out in the episode notes and in the chat. 

We want you to go and check those resources out. Dannah’s book you can get through the Revive Our Hearts bookstore, ReviveOurHearts.com. 

A few years ago Dannah was joined by Bob as they shared their story for the first time publicly at a Revive Our Hearts conference. We're going to drop a link to that too in the episode notes and in the chat. So, we've got tons and tons of resources for you. And you know what that is? Tons of resources, tons of stories of hope, avenues of hope. 

Dannah: I love it. You know, nobody can leave this program today believing the lie that you cannot be set free from pornography. You can be. Your husband can be. Your son, your daughter, they can be free in Jesus' name. There are resources, there's help. There are stories of trailblazers who have gone before you. And more than anything, there really is Jesus, I can't overemphasize that. All these tools are not much without Him. I've done the research. I've looked at the stats. And you look at the recovery industry, then we're talking single digit percentage of recovery. But you put Jesus into those tools and there's hope.

Portia: There's hope, amen. I got some comments that I want to share. There's so many, Dannah. 

Dannah: Please do. 

Portia: Lisette says, “Such an important topic that women are going through, and yet no one wants to talk about it because we believe the lie that no one will understand it. It is shameful.” Yes. Yes.

Dannah: That’s why we did these back to back programs. That's why last week Erin, and I got really courageous and brave and shared how it's impacted our homes. We're not going to tolerate that as women of God. We gotta fight this thing. That means we've got to talk about it. 

Portia: Absolutely. Linda said that she shared this podcast with a friend who is currently in conflict. So Linda, we don't know what your friend's name is, but we are praying that this podcast will bring her home, bring her fresh perspective, and to help her know that she's not alone. Someone else said, “Dannah you and your husband are a blessing for the Church.” I couldn't agree more. Thank you so much Dannah and Bob for sharing your story. That test turned into a testimony. That is a blessing to all of us. So, thank you.

Dannah: My pleasure. What a great program. We did miss Erin Davis today, though. I've got to say.

Portia: We did. We did. We missed you, Erin. I think she's watching. 

Dannah: Yeah. 

Portia: We see you. So, thank you. Thank you all for joining us today. We pray that this was very helpful for you. Join us next week for Heather Cofer. I love me some Heather. She will be our guest. I encourage you, let’s wake up with hope together next week on Grounded. 

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