Celebrating Being Female & Learning to Love Those Who Don’t, with Katie McCoy

It’s great to be a woman! In this episode, the Grounded hosts invite you to celebrate God’s good design for female identity. Guest Katie McCoy joins them to provide practical tips and ideas to help you respond to criticism of this biblical viewpoint with grace. 

Connect with Katie 

Instagram: @blondeorthodoxy 

Twitter: @blondeorthodoxy 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/blondeorthodoxy

Website: https://www.blondeorthodoxy.com/ 

Episode Notes

• “Is New Age Theology Creeping into the Church?” episode: https://www.youtube.com/live/QrRjP4JShbI?feature=share
• Katie McCoy’s website: https://www.blondeorthodoxy.com/
• To Be a Woman book by Katie McCoy: https://amzn.to/43FXF1H
• “Sexual Purity” chapel message by Dannah Gresh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQfl1gkZnYo
• It’s Great to Be a Girl book by Dannah Gresh: https://www.reviveourhearts.com/store/product/its-great-to-be-a-girl/
• True Girl subscription box: https://mytruegirl.com/subscription/
• “When Your Adult Child Identifies as Transgender: 3 Moms’ Stories” blog post by Katie Laitkep: https://www.reviveourhearts.com/blog/when-your-adult-child-identifies-as-transgender-3/
• “When Your Adult Child Identifies as Transgender: Part 2” blog post by Katie Laitkep: https://www.reviveourhearts.com/blog/when-your-adult-child-identifies-as-transgender-pa/

---------------

Erin Davis: I'm Erin Davis, and I'm a woman.

Dannah Gresh: I'm Dannah Gresh, and I, too, am a woman. 

And no, Erin, I have not run out of ways to kick off an episode of Grounded. But we want to be clear that we think it's great that God chose for us to be female. He's the one that assigned that gender to us. Somebody say, “Amen.”

Erin: You got it. Amen.

Dannah: He did not assign that to us at birth. Psalm 139 tells us he was thinking about the details of my creation story and yours before even one of my days was yet to be. And today, we're going to celebrate that. We think it's great to be a woman. And we'll provide some practical tips and biblical ideas about how to respond to criticism of this biblical viewpoint in a culture that's truly full of sexual chaos.

Erin: In case you missed it, that's your cue to share. Because all of the women in your sphere are wondering, How do I respond to what's happening? Chaos is the right word. 

So, hit that share button. Who would have thought that simply stating our gender (and that felt a little silly, I'm being honest) and being pleased with the fact that I'm a woman could be controversial?

Dannah: Right. 

Erin: But this is not exactly breaking news. You already know that just that basic premise that was taken for granted for so many, many years has become very controversial.

Dannah: Yeah, it sure has. One of the reasons that you tune into Grounded is to get away from that controversy, to get a break from the hopeless headlines. And it seems there are a lot right now that are celebrating an unbiblical response to gender. So, our role at Grounded is to help you get hope and perspective on that.

Erin: Right. I mean, basically anywhere you go, or anywhere you look, you can see the antithesis of what we're gonna be telling you. The message of gender and sexuality many are celebrating, but not in a way that's biblical. 

So, Dannah is right, we're here every week. We want to hand a couple of things out. One of them is hope. We hope that means you leave this episode feeling encouraged, not discouraged. But there is another thing we want to offer you and its perspective on complex cultural conversations, like the one happening now is around the area surrounding gender and sexuality. And since our current cultural climate crisis is more than a flash in the pan, we want to equip you to engage with others, Christians and non-Christians. I'm not sure it's possible to not engage on this. So, if I think we have to engage, we want to equip you to engage with Christians and non-Christians in ways that are grounded in God's Word and infused with hope. 

I don't think you're gonna walk away from this episode feeling defeated, but equipped.

Dannah: God's truth always brings peace to our hearts. So, I have a lot of confidence that that's the emotion you're going to leave with today. Katie McCoy is with us, I should actually say Dr. Katie, McCoy is with us. She has a PhD in systematic theology. So, you know, she's gonna point us to God's Word. She has a passion to help Christian women understand and wisely respond to the transgender movement.

Erin: I am grateful for Dr. McCoy, and I'm grateful for the wisdom she is going to bring us—whether it's your workplace, or your kids’ school, or even within your church. You are going to bump into the effects of this movement. We want you to have what you need to respond. 

First of all, we want you to respond. Second of all, we want you to respond in ways that are godly. And we want you to respond in ways that are effective, and this is going to equip you to do that. So, I've said it before, but I'm gonna say it louder for the women in the back, “Share this episode.” This is a thinking episode. It's gonna get your head, your heart, and you moving. It is definitely one to share with others.

Dannah: Yeah. But before Erin talks with Dr. Katie, our own Portia Collins is here with some good news. 

Erin: Good morning P.

Portia Collins: Good morning. Well, sometimes you get to be our good news. Two weeks ago we did an episode on New Age practices creeping into the church. And, you know, although we felt confident that this was a topic worth addressing, we weren't sure how well the message would be received. In fact, we were all praying about that. 

And we're happy to say that your hearts were so soft to the truth on that tough topic. This is why we love you. I want to share with you a little bit of the feedback that we received, a couple of comments that we received last week, and I pray that they'll be a blessing to you. 

So, Rashanda wrote this, “Lots of repentance is going on in this heart today. Thank you. Yoga, Enneagram is my sin. I am starting a Bible study with some young girls tomorrow, and I plan on showing them this video. I see them dabble in crystals, Enneagram, and astrology. Can you pray for us tomorrow as I gently talk about these issues? Thanks Revive Our Hearts for this ministry and episodes.” Thank you for sharing, Rashanda.

Robin wrote this. Robin said, “Thank you for addressing this topic, which is so needed. This is why I love our wait. You're always pointing us to God's Word in truth.” Love it, Girl, love it. All right. 

Finally, Jessica said this, “The world has no problem discussing these topics so neither should Christians. Thank you so much for bravely pointing us to truth.”

Now, I promise, listen, we are not sharing these comments to toot our own horn. All right, this is God's work. We want to let you know that we love hearing from you. But even more so, we love opening our Bibles and diving into tough topics with you. We love, love, love that God is using the ministry of Grounded in your life in such very real ways. All right, you put a smile on our faces every week. So, Grounded sisters, this week and every week you are our good news. 

If you missed that episode, I had a fascinating conversation with Marcia Montenegro, who has a testimony of being rescued from New Age practices by the Lord. And she now has a very deep passion to warn the church about how these beliefs can creep into the church. All right, we're gonna drop a link in the chat in the show notes. You can go back and check it out. It is a must watch.

And I think that this episode is going to be a must watch too, Erin. I am so pumped to get grounded in God's Word. Dannah is going to share a snippet of a powerful message that I got a chance to hear a couple of weeks ago in a Revive Our Hearts team chapel. I can't wait for everybody else to hear you. Don't you want throw your shoe? 

Erin: It is a throw your shoe kind of episode, and you're gonna want to have your Bible handy. That message it's based in 1 Peter. I just emailed Dannah yesterday and said, “I think you’ve got a Bible study in you about 1 Peter.” The reason I think that is because of this message that she is going to give us, so get your Bibles open. As we heard Dannah share this in chapel, God used it to reveal to many of us that our hearts are missing something in our approach to this conversation, which is the right starting point for complex conversations about gender and confusion. 

So, as we were developing this episode, I said, “Dannah, would you share a little bit of that 1 Peter message with our Grounded sisters today?” I always love it when Dannah teaches. I always say I'm excited about every episode, and I mean it. But I have never heard Dannah teach with more conviction and compassion than what you're going to hear from her and a little bit, so I'll be your hot girl, Dannah. This is some really good stuff. Portia, you remember that chapel, right?

Portia: Yes, I remember that chapel. And, yeah, you're gonna be ready to throw your shoe, y’all. That’s all I’ve got to say. You'll be ready to throw your shoe. 

Erin: Or your sandal. I'm ready. 

Portia: Yes, that's coming up, so sit tight. You see how we're hyping this up because you don't want to miss it. Sit tight. But first, Erin is going to get us grounded with God's people.

Erin: I'm ready to do it. Katie McCoy is our guest. She is the author of the brand-new book, To Be a Woman. Listen to the subtitle, The Confusion Over Female Identity and How Christians Can Respond. 

As Dannah said, she holds a PhD in systematic theology, which means she knows her Bible. And that's where we need to run for this topic. In fact, her research focus is on Old Testament laws about women and justice for the vulnerable. So, we really are bringing on an expert. Welcome to Grounded, Katie.

Dr. Katie McCoy: So good to be with you all. Thank you for having me.

Erin: So excited about this conversation. It's important we need to have it. Many of us are weighing if we even want to bring up gender ideologies at the dinner table. And you, Friend, wrote a whole book on it. What made you want to jump off the high dive into those choppy waters?

Dr. Katie: It is such a challenging topic in itself, and it's a very politically fraught topic as well. It’s one that a lot of emotion is involved in a lot of different perspectives about what it means to be human wrapped up in it. I wrote it in part because a friend of mine who worked at the publishing company said, “You know, we've got such a need to address this.”

And I said, “Well, I happened to have been teaching on this when it was really kind of a fringe issue when I was teaching in a seminary.” It was kind of a few headlines at that point. 

But I thought, Oh, I've got so many notes. I'll be able to just sort of put this together quickly. Little did I know that diving into the deep end of it, as you said. I thought I had a lot of material, but I had maybe a pinky finger compared to what I ended up discovering. And it was really like just getting lost in a lot of research. 

And then trying to wade through finding not only the truth, but then also seeing how the truth that we typically don't hear on the news, certainly not in our culture, how that actually aligns exactly with what God's Word says about who we are as human beings who bear His image.

Erin: I love that. I am fond of saying whoever is doing the work is doing the learning. So, as you were doing the work of trying to understand what is true here, I'm not surprised that you learned a lot more, I want to make a confession, that when this cultural shift started to happen, which meant it feels like it's happened very quickly,

Dr. Katie: That’s true.

Erin: But I know we can go back a ways. But as that cultural shift started to happen, I kind of had my pinkies toes, my toes and fingers crossed like this would just be a flash in the pan. This will be quick. It'll run its course, and then we'll be back to kind of center. I'm afraid that's not the reality. Transgender ideology here to stay, Katie.

Dr. Katie: Well, on the one hand, the ingredients that produced it are. So let's start with the yes, and then the maybe not. So, the yes part of it is the ideas that created it and much of our culture in ways that we don't even realize. We have been formed by ideas that say, for instance, that your true self is your emotional self, that you have an inner you that is just locked inside. And things like parents or religion or education or societal expectations are molding you into an inauthentic version of who you really are. We hear this phrase so often: my authentic self, I need to be my authentic self. And to the extent that we are living in the truth, walking in the light, and agreeing with God about who we are, that is accurate. But our culture sees authentic self as whatever my feelings say that I am.

And so that is just one of many ingredients that has created this idea that who you are is entirely up to you—that not even your physical body has the right to tell you who you truly are. The “maybe not” element of that is a little hopeful because some other countries in Europe, countries that are even more progressive than ours, are taking a step back from some of these practices. They are looking at how they have not helped many young people and have in many cases made it worse.They are looking at so-called gender affirming care is not caring well for the people and their mental health needs that are being prescribed some of these treatments like cross-sex hormones, puberty blockers, or surgeries. 

And unfortunately, but it's just a reality of the world in which we live. Some of these things don't change until doctors and health insurance companies are held accountable for what they have allowed. And in the United Kingdom, we've seen a real shift, in part because some of these young women grow up and say, “How could my doctor have allowed this? How can my health insurance company have covered it?” And they're holding those people accountable. 

We're starting to see some of that happen in the United States. We don't know what the result will be on the other side. 

But I think as more information is circulated, which itself is a challenge, because sometimes it's suppressed. But as more just decent, common sense people start recognizing this is not right, I think we're going to see the tide turn. And really what we're seeing, Erin, is natural law. What Romans describes as just the law of God that is in our conscience, that we instinctively know, whether something is right or wrong and we suppress our conscience and our sin, we know that.

Every person does a conscience to record whether something is right or wrong, and whether something even comports with the nature that God created.

Erin: Yeah, and thanks for peeling back those layers for us. There's so much more than just the surface-level conversation. You hit the nail on the head. This is about identity. So even if medical practices swing back, even if insurance companies swing back, even if that sort of exterior pendulum swings back, the identity piece is where we've got to get it right. 

Here's a question for you, Katie. I think I know what you're gonna say. But should Christians engage in this conversation? There's a temptation just to sit it out, especially if it doesn't seem to be impacting your own family. If you have a transgender adult child, or you're facing some policies at work, that's another thing, but should we engage? And do we have the option to sit it out, in your opinion?

Dr. Katie: It's a great question. We must engage. And here's part of why this is only one piece of the puzzle. In about 10 to 15 years, we are going to have a flood of de-transitioners. People who in their younger years are trying to soothe soul-level pain with exterior solutions. More and more of them are becoming vocal, talking about how they had maybe a couple of appointments with a doctor and never got the mental health care that they needed. They were ushered into these life-altering decisions, all in an effort to find inner peace. And that's something that gets so lost in this era. 

People are doing this to find inner wholeness, to find a sense of unity, and integrity, we would even say, between the inner self and the outer self. This is essentially our turf. We have the answer of where to find this. We cannot find inner peace within ourselves until we are at peace with our Creator. 

And then when that happens, we find peace, not only with our relationships with others, but even our inner self. And so, what's going to happen is we're going to have a generation of de-transitioners who look around and say, “Who was telling me the truth when I didn't want to hear it? Who was telling me what I didn't want to have to know? But they were saying it when it was inconvenient.” And this is the opportunity of a generation for us to hold the line on what is true. But also, to say it not only with clarity and conviction, but with compassion, to say it is the truth that sets you free. That is the truth that will open your eyes to who you are and what you're really needing. 

You know, so many of these people are caught up in ideas that are pushed upon them by social media. And some of them are led into it because they've been introduced to some pornographic things that is affecting certainly a lot of teenage and young adult men. But especially for young women, they are influenced by their peers, by social media. And honestly, by just being girls, the way that God designed girls to emotionally connect with other young women. It's being manipulated to lead those young women to believing that what they need to do is change their bodies and try to run away from how God made them. 

So, we don't have a choice to set out on this. We do not have the option. This is the world in which God has placed us. He foreordained our lives, including the years and the culture in which we would live. He has chosen us to be His witnesses at this time in the middle of these issues. We cannot run away from it without running away from our mission.

Erin: I get goosebumps, Katie, because we’ve got to take our stand here with compassion but with conviction. As you were talking, I was thinking of Laura Perry Smalts, who's a woman that has spoken at our conferences and on Revive Our Hearts this month. We will drop a link to her story. But she tells that she thought with every surgery, first with the mastectomy, then with a hysterectomy, she thought every time she'd wake up from those surgeries and she would feel better about herself, that her inner man would have this new identity. She talks about every time she woke up and realized I'm still a woman, how jarring that was.

One aunt wrote to her and begged her to please don't do this. Please don't violate God's design for you. And at the risk of being cut out of her niece's life, she took a stand and the Lord used that to ultimately woo Laura back to Him. So we can't sit out. 

I was 99.9% sure you're gonna say we had to engage and you did it so beautifully better than I could I do and to acknowledge that this is complex. Behind the issues and the headlines and the rainbow flags and the marches and all of that, there are people made the image of God. But when I opened my Bible, I don't find the word transgender. 

What are some biblical principles that can help anchor our thinking on this front as we begin to go and share with those people?

Dr. Katie: Yes. So back to the beginning, all the way at the beginning in Genesis 1 and 2. This is the genius of the Holy Spirit, Erin, because God knew when He gave the exact words in the Bible that we were going to need to understand and have access to Him. He knew even this cultural moment. And here, let me put it in a nutshell. I've got it really laid out in a chapter on the theological approach to be a woman. But in a nutshell, in Genesis1, we have two words for male and female. It's essentially the same two words that you would use for a male or female version of any other type of living thing. 

But then when we go to Genesis, to the whole retelling of the creation story. It shifts to a relational approach, even the name that God uses to reveal Himself moves from Elohim creator god to Yahweh, His personal name. 

And instead of seeing male or female, which refers to their biology, their biological sex, we have the words man and woman. And if you've been listening to anything and Revive Our Hearts for any amount of time, you have learned the significance of those words. Man in Hebrew is ish. And woman in Hebrew is ishah. You see how those two words are related ishah, the woman comes from the man is like the man, but different from the man. 

In other words, even the words are depicting or reflecting their identity. But here's what's so amazing for our cultural moment. To be a male in Genesis 1 is to be a man in Genesis 2, to be a female in Genesis 1 is to be a woman in Genesis 2. 

In other words, by God's design, the body, the biological sex, and the self, the gendered person are created to be in harmony. 

Now, because of sin, what happens in Genesis 3 is it unleashes a torrent of confusion and identity fracture. The things that were supposed to be in harmony and whole are now disjointed.

And the truth is, this idea of one's body being somehow separate from one's inner self, that's been around for a very long time. We see it even in ancient Rome. There was an Emperor who believed that he was a woman and wanted surgeons to try to make him into a woman. It's an ancient lie. But now we have terms and technology that has made it seem very new, but the impulse to define ourselves, to try to see our identity as something self-created, instead of bestowed by God, well, that goes all the way back to Genesis 3, doesn't it? This is a very old thing. 

And you know what, Erin? Let me reiterate one thing. When we were talking about Laura Perry, you know that impulse to be made new, that's real. That's the Holy Spirit putting eternity in our hearts, I believe, because the desire to be a new person, we instinctively know that that's what we need. But like everything that sin and Satan corrupts, it twists it inside of ourselves and says that the answer is within myself. The answer is something that I can do to be made new. I can do and achieve to be made whole. And the answer is the gospel of the Lord Jesus is that it is given to us.

We have a need to be made new, in ways that a surgeon can never reach, in ways that our emotions can never reflect. We need the newness of the new life of the Holy Spirit. And that is everything that our transgender neighbor needs. Their primary need is not just to have an inner sense of wholeness, their need is to be reconciled to God in Christ.

Erin: Portia always talks about when the truth is flowing, and it's good she throws her shoe. I can't see Portia right now, but I bet she's barefoot, because you are saying these really profound things in such a way that we can understand and can get behind as you're talking. I think I was thinking I could push back against the transgender movement by simply teaching my own sons that their identity is in the Lord and helping them seek that from Him. 

And so, there's a lot we can do here, Church. It's hard to feel hopeful. You mentioned Romans, I've been parked in Romans this month and just realizing the progression of sin. We're in it, we're in that if you want to persist in your sin, the Lord is going to give you over to that. And Romans 1 even says that they find new ways to sin. And we're seeing that it can be tempting to just feel like the culture is literally going to hell in a handbasket and there's nothing left to do about it. As you look at all that's happening in the complexities of it, what gives you hope?

Dr. Katie: What gives me hope is that while we haven't been here before, the people of God have. When we go all the way back to the early Church, the early Church confronted an idea called Gnosticism. 

If you've studied the New Testament, and especially the writings of Paul, you know that the apostles were immediately confronting this idea. Here's what Gnosticism said. See if it sounds just a little familiar. 

Gnosticism said that the way to salvation was through an experience of the mind and the soul. Salvation was about escaping the physical world, that your body was a prison that you had to break free from, and that redemption, salvation, was some type of experience of the inner self that allowed you to escape the physical self. 

Everything that we're seeing is just a new version of this ancient heresy, this ancient lie. Into this world burst the message of Christ, and just see how different this was from the ancient world. We have a God who created the physical world and said it was good. We have a God who came in a physical body, and that was good. He physically died, physically was raised, physically ascended, don't you know right. Now, He is still the Lord Jesus is in physical human form in the unmitigated presence of the Father as He is. So we will also be. He's going to come back and bring us to Him in a physically resurrected body, and He's going to create a new physical earth, the entire scope of human history is embodied. 

God has created this body not only to be good, but to reflect something of the reality of Him, that causes us to look at the complexity of the human world of the physical self, and say, “There must be a God.”

I have to tell you about one of the chapters. I looked at the biological differences between male and female, and it was not the obvious ones, it was not about reproduction, it was neurological down to the differences of our muscle fibers. 

I'm not going to tell you, I don't know how anybody can study humanity and come out an atheist. You really do have to suppress the truth of creation to say that this just somehow evolved. Because it's not just with order and design, it's that between male and female, there's order and design at the neurological level. That's not only different, but different in a way that complements each other. It is remarkable. 

So just know these simple truths. This is where you start. Don't take for granted the power of the simple truths from Genesis all the way to Revelation, when the Lord Jesus will come back. The whole point of our gender will be fulfilled, we will be married to the Lamb. 

And that's what our gender differences are pointing to from the very beginning. And so just speak those simple truths. It cuts through the deception. Now, we need to be ready, because we are no longer living in a world where the basics of the Christian worldview are a baseline for our culture. 

Erin: We’re not the home team anymore. 

Dr. Katie: Well, that's exactly it. We're really I think what it is, Erin, we are we are approaching a world that is far more like what most of our brothers and sisters around the world and throughout history have lived in. And we don't realize probably how privileged we have been in previous previous decades and generations. So really, all we are doing is taking up our place as God's witnesses, and we need to be ready for what that is going to cost us, because it will cost us, but everything that is valuable costs. There's nothing we will lose in this life that the Lord will not see and return tenfold in the next.

Erin: I'm gonna climb up on the soapbox with you. Here I go up there because this embodied theology that you're talking about is so important. It does have tentacles into this conversation and Katie's mentioned a couple of places for you to go after this episode in God's Word. Get yourself into Genesis 1, see God's design, carry it through to Genesis 3. Get yourself to Romans 1. It's going to give you some biblical handles for what we're seeing happen in the culture. 

For me, Romans 1 gives me a great deal of compassion for those who are beating this drum because I realize they are under wrath. God has turned them over to their depraved mind. They think what they're saying is true. And so, they need the gospel. 

Woo, Katie, I could talk to you a lot more. But I do want to get as to Dannah’s teaching, because it's just going to put a bow on everything you've been saying. I know women are going to want to hear more from you, where do they go to learn more about the things you're talking about?

Dr. Katie: Yes, if you'll go to BlondeOrthodoxy.com that's my name on social media—Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, then BlondeOrthodoxy.com And then if you're interested in the book, you can find it on BlondeOrthodoxy.com But you can also find it on TobeAWomanBook.com.

This has only been out for not very long, and I just am blown away by the Lord, by the ways that the Lord has used it. I pray He will use it in your life. I wrote it so that you and I can be ready, that we can give a wise, informed answer. We can understand the culture in which we live and translate it with the truth to the people that we see every day.

Erin: Amen. We're gonna drop the link so that you can get to it quickly. Order today. You're in good company with blonde theologians here on Grounded, Katie.Thanks so much for being our guest. I am going to turn it over to Dannah.

Dannah, keep the truth train rolling down the tracks. We're ready for you.

Dannah: Hey Erin Davis, stick around for me with me just a minute. I love that conversation—so energizing, so truth filled, at the same time. My spirit, I believe by the Holy Spirit, is receiving nudges to go off our roadmap a little bit. 

Erin: Okay, let's follow Him.

Dannah: Because this is a nuanced conversation.

Erin: Certainly.

Dannah: We could probably talk for a week about all the nuances, all the caveats, all the disclaimers, but there are plenty that I think God's asking me to, to pull into this conversation. So Erin, would you just pray for me before I teach without notes, that the Lord would guide every word I say so that it's a safe and fulfilling and encouraging conversation that adds to the truth that Katie just shared? Would you pray for me?

Erin: You got it from Missouri; I'm gonna lay my hands on you. 

Jesus, I thank you that Your Word is true. I think you that in You, we do have a true and hope-filled identity and apart from You, it's no identity at all. So, I thank You for the truth. Katie's brought already. I do pray for my dear friend, Dannah, as she listens and obeys You God. I pray that every word that comes from her mouth would be from You—that there would be no extra words, no idle words, no harmful words Lord, but that she would just deliver straight truth. God, we're listening. Our hearts are open. Our eyes are open. Our ears are open. We want to hear from You. It's in Your name I pray, amen.

Dannah: Amen. Thank you, my friend. 

I want to start by sharing with you an experience that I had last June during pride month. My husband and I were shopping in a bustling metropolis. I walked into a store and was greeted by “Happy Pride Month.” After I entered, I kind of just pushed my way into the store not knowing what to say. And I heard that little ding of the bell above the stores door announcing the arrival of another shopper. And I heard once again “Happy Pride Month.” It was the same voice that had welcomed us. “Happy Pride Month” answered the shopper back. I realized they expected me to say it back. Like the way our culture used to say “Merry Christmas.”

I sure felt like I didn't fit in. It was all very foreign to me. I wondered how on earth do those of us who desire to practice biblical sexual integrity respond in situations like that. 

Now, here's one of those nuances. I want to add what I have to say today. It's not just those outside of the Church that are struggling with this issue. It's right inside of our churches sitting next to us. People are questioning what Katie and Erin just talked about 37% of evangelicals say “I agree with the statement, gender is a matter of choice.” We had better figure this conversation out. 

Thankfully, God wrote some instructions down for us. Peter was written to Gentiles and a sexually confused culture, where they were also highly persecuted. The whole book might help right now, I encourage you to open it and just ask the Lord to guide you through some of these conflicting conversations. But let's see narrow in on just two verses and grab just two key thoughts. 

I want to read to you from 1 Peter 2, verses 11–12. It simply says this, “Beloved,” Oh, I love how it starts. 

“Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation. “

Beloved, it all starts there. You know, this is the first time that Peter, that rough and tough fisherman will address us as beloved. 

Now, he's also going to address us as sojourners and exiles. In other words, if you don't feel like you fit in, that's because you don't. And you shouldn't, because this world is not our home. 

But first and foremost, we are the beloved, we are loved. He'll go on to remind us eight times and those two letters that we are loved. Some translations say my loved ones or divinely loved ones. And I think this condition of being loved so deeply is the starting place for winning, as Peter refers to it in these verses, the passions of the flesh. 

Let me say this very clearly, sexual integrity must be rooted in God's love, not God's rules, though those do matter, too. I find that most people know God's rules and understand them. When they're not in alignment with them, even the proud ones when they are not in alignment with God's rules, they know it deep down in their hearts. But here's the thing, I've personally never seen a man or woman win the battle against their passions of the flesh, because they suddenly realized that the rules were right, or that we were right, or that they were sinful. 

I've had a front row seat to see dozens and hundreds of hearts change for the last 30 years. They don't change because they feel that we were right, they change because they experience love, they begin to understand that they are loved. Now, so I want to ask you, how can you express your love to someone who's sexually confused? 

Now, I'm not saying you don't sometimes communicate your concerns about culture or that you should approve or affirm sinful behavior. But I think part of keeping our conduct honorable is not just living in sexual integrity, but also being kind and loving with those who are not. 

And here's where I feel like I need to add something really important to our conversation. Intersexuality is a very real physiological condition for a small minority of people. 

Now, intersexuality is different from gender dysphoria. Intersexuality is a real physical condition about, let me get this right, 1 in 2000. Babies are born with conflicting physical sexual organs. That is, the doctor can't really say it's a boy or it's a girl. 

Now, that's because they have some gender abnormalities or differences in their little bodies, things like Fragile X syndrome. 

So, you don't know when you're talking to someone who's trying to figure out who they are, if they are one of these very small, this very itty-bitty sliver of those in the community. If there really is a very painful physiological condition . . . I think of a woman who contacted me. They had just adopted a child whose gender was not able to be determined. 

Now, usually, they can do a blood test at birth and they can figure out if this child is male or female, but in a very, very, very small minority of them, they can't figure that out. And this child was too much work for the parents to which he or she was born. 

And so, a Christian family adopted the baby at the age of about four. They called me and said, “We don't know what to do, will you help us?” They were in deep pain for this child who was also in deep pain and confused. I was able to connect them to a Christian sex therapist and a medical doctor who had a whole lot more experience than I did. And I said, all I can really do is love you and encourage you. I can give you some money to help with some of the expenses, but all I can offer you is love. 

And you know what she said to me? You're the first Christian who has responded with love. Everyone else has responded with shame. 

Think about that. This family who was on the front line of living this. I said, ‘Where have you experienced love?” She said, “The LGBTQ community.” 

God, forgive us. Let us be the first ones to run in with love. 

I want to ask you this question, how can you express your love to someone who is sexually confused? I am not saying that everything Katie said is not true. I am saying that we have to communicate it first and foremost, with a sense that that person is loved by God. Love is where it begins, and where it ends.

Well, that's interesting. Because as I studied these two verses, I noticed that if we're rooted in God's love, we live in sexual integrity, and that's going to be something we can expect to be disputed by the world, right. But ultimately, eventually, one day Peter says it will bear the fruit of glorifying God. 

So, here's the second thing I want you to see in these two precious verses. Sexual integrity bears the fruit of glorifying God. But let's look really closely at these verses. Who does this passage specifically say will glorify God? 

Hmm, I actually had to diagram a sentence for this one. I'm a big fan of sentence diagramming, total geek in that respect. Sometimes I diagram the sentences of the Bible, and it helps me see things more clearly. 

When I diagram 1 Peter 2:12, I saw something I had not seen before. Who is it that glorifies God? They do the ones who slander us and speak about us as evil doers, because we stand up for the truth of God's Word about gender and sexuality. 

When we live as beloved aliens in this world and abstain from fleshly passions, and respond honorably, and help them understand that they are loved. ,e win the hearts of they, the disputer, with God's love. 

That granddaughter who's living in a gay community, she glorifies God; those neighbors who are transitioning their fifth grader, they glorify God; the husband who's breaking your heart with pornography, he glorifies God; the mother whose son is calling himself void and dressing like a girl, he glorifies God. 

And where's that start? With a sense of God's love. May all of the opinions and conversations we have during this pride month be rooted and anchored in the love of God.

If we can start there, we just might be surprised at how some of these stories unfold. 

Portia: Dannah Banana. So, I'm gonna let you guys in on a little secret. I know what Dannah’s notes were. And I know that Dannah was totally led by the Spirit to share in that way. Like I'm just sitting over here, like, “Wait, what was she doing?” 

Dannah: There was a little bit of Jeremiah. There's something “shut up in my bones and burning” that I had to get out.

Portia: Absolutely. And what a way to model sharing God's truth being led to speak directly in the way that God is calling you to speak. And sometimes, that takes us going off script. 

Dannah: Yeah. 

Portia: Thank you. I hope you guys were listening. I hope you go back and listen again. I told you, you were gonna want to throw your shoe. I didn't even know what was coming. I didn't even realize how much I was going to be wanting to throw my shoe too. So, thank you, Dannah. 

Dannah: You're welcome. 

Portia: Well, it's time for tools to stay grounded in God's Word, and boy have we been in the Word. Well, the first thing that will offer to you is the rest of Dannah’s message from chapel that week, in fact, you're going to probably get more than what you bargained for. We're going to drop a link to that in the show notes in the chat, and Dannah, stick with me, come back over here. Really quickly, I hear that you have something that will help moms talk to their tween girls about gender confusion. Tell a little bit about it.

Dannah: Well, I wrote a book for 8- to 12-year-old girls about their changing bodies. As part of my work in our partner ministry for tween girls and their moms. The book’s titled It’s Great to be a Girl: A Guide to Your Changing Body.

Now it does deal with body image and changing body from a biblical perspective. It was to hit this topic of gender confusion head on, but in an age-appropriate way. I want the girls to learn three reasons God thinks it's great for them to be a girl. 

And it's great for boys to be boys. And that seemed like a small statement when I started writing this several years ago. But just it's great to be a girl. That little statement has big impact to plant truth into our kids. So It’s Great to be a Girl that book that little study for eight to 12 year old girls is available at ReviveOurHearts.com We'll throw a link in the show notes.

And this month, Portia I'm so excited. I'm releasing a whole new CD album for True Girl. And the lead song is titled “It’s Great to be a Girl.” It's based on Genesis 1:26 and 28. and Psalm 139. I want to remind girls that it's not a mistake that you were assigned to be a girl by God. God made that decision. I want girls to sing this theology, meditate on this theology. So, I commissioned a song on this all new album, and it is also titled, “It’s Great to be a Girl”

Portia: Look, I'm over here like, “Oh, we got to get the music, me and Emmi.” Like, that's our jam. We love theology in the Collins house. So, I want my Emmi to be singing this song. How can I get a copy? Please, Ma'am?

Dannah: Well, the album's are going first who our True Girl subscribers. Those are shipping this week. Then we're shipping some to friends of True Girl who helped us launch this important product, it was an expensive one. So those who make a special financial gift at MyTrueGirl.com. This month, we're going to be sending them one of these. 

So, you can find out more about that by following us MyTrueGirl.com or on Facebook and Instagram pages, just follow us there. We'll have the album up on our website for sale in August if you don't grab one now and help support the product. But we would be so blessed if you would help us during this special campaign.

Portia: Look, that sounds like something right up my alley. So let me be getting my stuff together so I can join in on the special campaign. That is awesome, Dannah. I’m just so godly proud.

Dannah: Thank you, Friend.

Portia: Well, you know, one of the ways that you our Grounded sisters have told us that this transgender movement has impacted you most deeply is with your adult children. Many of you have adult children or grandchildren who now identify as transgender, and you want to affirm or figure out a way to connect with him in that decision. That's where this conversation today comes into play. It moves beyond platitudes and hashtags and impacts our hearts in our homes. 

So if that's you, I want to take a moment to pray for you. In just a moment, we're gonna pray. But we want to point you to first a blog series that may be helpful on the Revive Our Hearts blog. It's a two part series that's from the perspective of three moms who their adult children actually identify as transgender. 

And so, you will hear from some sisters who do know what it is like to walk for real in the shoes and you will find biblical, practical advice on how to love your children or your grandchildren, and how to find ways to connect with them while also standing firm in biblical truth. And so, we're going to drop a link to that two-part series. We hope that you will check it out. We'll stick around because we do want to pray for you. 

Erin: Yeah, we're gonna pray for you. I'm just gonna say what we always say which is hurry back next week. We're going to wake up with hope together next week on Grounded. Portia, pray us out, those women who have been impacted, which is all women, by this conversation, this gender revolution.

Portia: I'd be glad to.

Oh, Father, Lord, You know everything you said high up on the throne. And sometimes when we are in the thick of hard situations like this, like this whole transgender movement and the people that we love that have been impacted by it, sometimes there's a temptation for us to think that you are not on the throne. But that is a lie from the pits of hell. 

God, You still rule and you reign, and You see all things. You care deeply for us, and You love us, and You are working. And so, Lord, right now we just pray that by the power of the Holy Spirit, that You will first work in us. Work in us so that we can live in a way that shows the world that we belong to You. 

I'm reminded in Scripture of how we are told that, how will they know us, and we will be known by our love, our love for You, our love for neighbor. So, Lord, first work in our hearts, so that we can be the light so that we can be the salt.

And then, Lord, I pray that You will work in the hearts of those who have gone astray, those who are being deceived by the lies of the enemy. Lord, I pray that You will snatch them back. Help them to see that their identity, their true identity is rooted in You, and that what You designed for us is good. It's holy, and it's beautiful, and it's precious. We don't need to turn from that or believe the lies of the enemy or try to invent things that we think will fulfill us or fill these void voids. 

But Lord, we just need to turn to You in humility, in love, seeking Your hand, seeking Your guidance, seeking everything that we need for You.

Lord, I pray for all these moms and grandmas who are probably worried, and they feel like they are praying day after day and nothing is changing. Lord, comfort them and let them know that You hear their prayers, and that You will act accordingly in Your time. Give them a peace that surpasses all understanding. And Lord, keep them faithful. Even in this, Lord, keep them hopeful. Even in this, Father, we love You. We praise You. In Christ Jesus’ name that we pray, amen.

Dannah: Amen. 

Erin: Amen. We love you Grounded sisters. See you next week.

Grounded audio is powered by Skype. Grounded is a production of Revive Our Hearts calling women to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ. 

*Offers available only during the broadcast of the podcast season.