How to Get Over Church Hurt (Without Walking Away), with Megan Hill

“Church” and “hurt” are two words that should never go together, but they do. In this episode of Grounded, Megan Hill shares her experiences with church hurt and answers hard questions such as, “Why should I still trust God in the midst of this pain?” “Why should I keep showing up to church?” Her interview is an invitation to think biblically about the disappointments you’ve faced, to fight for the Church, and to experience healing and hope in Christ.

Connect with Megan

Instagram: @meganevanshill 
Twitter: @MeganEvansHill

Episode Notes

• Sighing on Sunday: 40 Meditations for When Church Hurts book by Megan Hill.
• “Why the Church Should Be Equipped to Respond to the Problem of Trauma, with Dr. Diane Langberg” video.
• “To the Woman Who’s Thinking of Quitting Church” post by Cindy Matson.
• Register for the When You Love a Prodigal online event.

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Dannah Gresh: Well, here are two words that should never go together, but sadly they do: church and hurt. I'm Dannah Gresh. You're watching Grounded and my cohosts are in the wings, Erin Davis and Portia Collins. I am so burdened that we get this topic. But also I want you to feel like you're not alone if you've experienced church hurt. 

So, we're gonna go first and share some ways that we've experienced it. But first, here are some ground rules. We are pro church. We love the church because Jesus is pro church and loves the church. And in His Word, He calls the Church His bride. We are pro freedom. We are not doing this episode so we can commiserate about the ways the church has failed us but so that we can experience freedom and continue to love and serve the body of Christ. We want to make things better, and we hope you do too. 

Erin and Portia, come on in here. I want to say you hear the words church hurt, what comes to mind for each of you? Erin, let's have you go first. 

Erin Davis: Well, the story that comes to mind immediately happened just a few years ago. I decided to attend a women's Bible study at my church, like I hope everybody does. And after class, the teacher asked me to stay after class. You know that feeling. You know it's not good. 

She expressed to me that she was very intimidated to have me in her class, and she preferred I didn't come back. I promise you I did not come in there swinging. I don't think I came in there with the attitude that I have all the answers because that was not my intent. In fact, I think I was pretty quiet during that first session, but it still stings when I think about that. It really hurt.

Dannah: You know, that really gets to the heart of where most church hurt comes from. It's insecurity. 

Erin: Yeah, right. 

Dannah: In all of us. That's why we hurt people. 

Erin: It sure made me feel insecure. I feel insecure whenever I go into a women's group in my church ever since because I feel insecure about how I've made others feel or how I'll be perceived. So, it's been a kind of an infectious insecurity which I don't like.

Dannah: Well, I love it when you are in the audience when I'm teaching because you are a cheerleader, Erin Davis. Portia, when you hear the word church hurt, what comes to your mind?

Portia Collins: Yeah, church hurt. So immediately, I think of my friend. I don't want to share her name. So, let's just call her Jane. Recently, our church has been navigating how we as a church should engage in some of these cultural conversations. It’s very important.

Dannah: The hot button.

Portia: Yeah, the hot buttons, and there has been a lot of tension. And honestly, people are just not agreeing. 

Dannah: Imagine that.

Portia: Imagine. These discussions have been hard, and even with the best intentions, sometimes hurtful things are said. I've noticed that Jane has not been at church or weekly Bible study in quite a while and she was definitely a regular attender. And so even though a word hasn't been spoken of her absence, I know that she is hurting. I know that she still needs community, and I want to be able to walk with her through this season. 

Erin: Portia, there's probably a lot of Janes. We were praying for this event, and I was praying that the Janes—will call them all Janes, those who have been here and then distance themselves from the church—would find this episode. Dannah, I'm sure you have a church hurt story to share. 

Dannah: I do. First, I gotta say, I think, Portia, it's beautiful that when you think of church hurt, the first thing you think is you have the eyes to see someone else who's hurting. 

Erin: Yeah, that is a great perspective. 

Dannah: Because that's not where I went. Honestly, I had a different story I was going to share, but this morning, I thought of one that maybe was the first time I felt church hurt. I was attending a Christian university, which I love and is awesome, but it's part of the body of Christ. And so obviously, there’s church right there. My husband-to-be, Bob Gresh, was running for president. In this student newspaper, I kid you not, they were complaining about him. It said, and I quote, “I think his girlfriend colors her hair too.” 

Erin: In print? 

Dannah: In print. I was like, are you kidding? This got through the faculty advisors that were looking at. 

Erin: That is petty. 

I know it's just petty. I didn't color my hair. I still to this day, my hair will just go poof, ghost white blonde. I do color my hair today, by the way, friends.

Erin: We know. 

Dannah: But I am a dishwater blonde until I go out in the sun. Anyway, it's sometimes just the dumbest things. 

Erin: Yeah. 

Dannah: And here's the thing. We're sinful people. That's why we hurt each other. And the reason the Church exists is, hello, do I hear it in the background? Sinful people. So as long as that's why the Church exists, we are going to experience hurt, but there's good news. 

Megan Hill is our guest today. She's a pastor's daughter and a pastor's wife. She's here to open God's Word to respond like Jesus when church hurts. But first, we're gonna ground our thinking in God's Word. Erin, would you do the honors today?

Erin: Happy to. We're flipping the script a little bit. A lot of times, we'll jump right into our conversation and then follow that up with God's Word. But because there's landmines here, and there are, we wanted to start with grounding ourselves in God's Word. And then, of course, we're going to continue that in our conversation with Megan. 

I love to teach you on Grounded; it's a joy. And usually that plow cuts pretty easily for me, because I know the kinds of things I want to say. But that wasn't necessarily true for this episode. I thought a lot like what could I possibly say about the Church in the limited amount of time that I have, just a few minutes here?

And add on this complicated layer of what could I possibly say about the church, in an age where there are stories, the stories of people who have been deeply wounded by people within the church andhas its own hashtag. I mean, some would say that it's a movement. 

So, we're having a very public conversation about church hurt. And as part of that very public conversation, the words abuse and spiritual abuse and trauma are getting thrown around so often that they've nearly lost all meaning. 

And so, what can I say with that as the background that is helpful and true and honest and compassionate? 

So, I thought and prayed and thought and prayed, and I landed on this. It's so simple, but it's the right starting point. Jesus loves the Church. I would ask you to consider again with me Ephesians 5. It’s probably familiar, but listen to Ephesians chapter 5, verses 25 through 27. 

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her to make her holy, cleansing her with the washing of water by the word. He did this to present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or anything like that, but holy and blameless.

Now, because we are humans with human perspective, at least this is true of me, we tend to focus on the “husbands love your wife’s” part. And that's not the focus of this passage. That's not the focus of any passage. It's true, and it's inspired, and it's useful for our instruction. But even so, let's set that aside for now. And I want you to listen to the rest of this passage. Again, if I take out the husbands love your wives, I'm not erasing it from scripture, it's very important. 

But if I just pick it up with Jesus was the focus of our Bibles, listen to it again, Christ loved the church, and gave Himself up for her, that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that He might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 

Now, Jesus knows that the Church has issues and I'm defining the Church, as the global body of believers, those of us who have given our lives to Jesus, we're following Him throughout time and throughout the world. 

And so, Jesus is, of course, not blind to the fact that the Church as defined that way, and the people within the Church have deep issues, that we have sin issues. Let's call it what it is: sin issues. Of course, Jesus knows that He gave Himself up for that very reason. He gave himself up for the Church, that she that we might be sanctified, cleansed, the text says that we might be taken from sinners, to splendor, imagine the wonder of that. 

And so, I will never give up on the Church, because Jesus will never give up on the Church. And if Jesus is willing to die for her, then I'm willing to fight for her. 

Now, I want you to know that this does not require naive passivity. It doesn't require us to gloss over things and pretend that there are not systemic, in some cases, and horrific sin issues. In fact, it requires the opposite of naive passivity. It requires informed activity because we are sinful and broken. Jesus went to the cross for the Church, making a way for us to be His pure, spotless bride. There is nothing passive about the Church. 

So we don't take our cues from the culture, we take our cues from our Savior, and Jesus fought and in an intense and active fight for the sake of the Church.

When we fight against sin in the Church, when we call each other to holiness, when we refuse the ideals of the world, and we refuse to let those infiltrate our gatherings, when we call sinners in our midst to repentance, we are very much being like Jesus, and we are fighting with Him in love for the bride. He loves deeply. I know it's complicated, because church hurt, hurts. But the Church is worth fighting for. 

And it's not because of our traditions. It's not even because of what the church has meant to each of our lives. That's the conversation. I would love to have a say, I don't know where I'd be without the church. But the real reason we keep fighting for the church is because Jesus loves the Church. 

Which makes me wonder, I don't really wonder, I know the answer. What is Jesus doing right now? Right this very moment? Well, we know He's doing a couple of things. We know He's interceding for us. I love that thought. Scripture makes that clear. But the other thing we know Jesus is doing right now is He's preparing a place for the Church. 

Listen to John 14:1–3, “Let not your hearts be troubled.” This is Jesus talking to His disciples, of course. “believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms, If it were not so, I would have told you what I have told you, that I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go to prepare a place for you, I will come and get you to take you to myself that where I am, you may be also.” 

I'm sure that you've heard the cultural context of this passage is beautiful and rich and worth repeating. When a young Jewish boy fell in love with a young Jewish girl, he would go and get busy preparing a place for them to begin their new life together. 

And as soon as that place was ready, he would go and get her, and he would take her as his bride so that she could be his and dwell with him forever. 

Now, Jesus spoke the whole world into existence. Do we really think He needs 2000 years to prepare a place for His bride? What's that about? Right now, right this very moment, Jesus is preparing a place for his bride. And Scripture tells us though eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has imagined what it's like. It's so fantastical. 

And why is Jesus spending the time? Why is He preparing a place for the Church? Because He loves her. And because He wants to spend forever with her, and because He will not give up on her. Soon, very soon, He's going to come get us. We're going to begin that lifetime, that eternity with Him forever and ever in the place that He's been preparing. 

So, Jesus will not give up on the Church. So, we will not give up on the church. And that's the foundation from which we want to have this conversation about church hurt. 

So, Dannah, I'm eager to learn. I'm eager to hear from you. And Megan. I turned it over to you. 

Dannah: Thanks Erin. What a good word. Jesus loves the Church. For that reason I want to too. 

Megan Hill is with us. She is the managing editor of the Gospel Coalition and an author. I’m excited to tell you about her books today. Megan, welcome to Grounded. We are so glad to have you.

Megan Hill: Thanks so much for having me. 

Dannah: Okay, so I guess the obvious place to start is how have you experienced hurt by the church?

Megan: Yeah, so sort of two quick stories.The first one was maybe the first time I experienced church hurt. I was a college student, and my church women's committee had invited me to come and help with the church’s women's retreat. They put me in charge of the breakfast for the women's retreat. I had never had that much responsibility before in my life. And so, I took it very seriously in preparing everything that needed to be prepared. 

And the morning of the breakfast, whenever I laid out all the food, and I ducked back into the kitchen to get something else, and other women were coming in, I just heard them complaining about the breakfast. It wasn't the right time, and the coffee wasn't right. My heart just was so hurt in that moment, because I had been so excited about this service that I was being asked and this responsibility that I had, and then they were upset about it. I didn't want to come out of that kitchen because it was just so hard. 

Dannah: Yeah.

Megan: Well, then fast forward to several years later. As you said, I'm a pastor's wife. My husband has been called twice now to two different churches. And both of those churches, when we arrived at the church, the church had just gone through a major hurt involving the previous pastor. 

And then, the fallout from that and conflict in the church. And so, I was in the situation of sort of not being sinned against myself, but walking with these people who themselves had been really hurt. We're trying to process what had happened. 

So, I'm sort of coming at it from both sides—examples of my own hurt, and then also walking alongside people who've been hurt.

Dannah: Yeah. And again, we're not talking about these stories so that we can commiserate and contribute to bitterness or anger or frustration or heartache. We want to solve those problems. We want to know that you're not alone. You're not alone if you've experienced some pain in the body of Christ. Megan, how widespread do you think the problem is?

Megan: It partly depends on how you define it. But you know, if we're talking about hurt being sort of everything from, I'm feeling neglected, people aren't looking out for me, they don't care about my needs. To outright abuse and failure of church leaders to there are some things in my life that are hard, that are making it hard for me to go to church.

Dannah: Yeah.

Megan: Like, I'm suffering from infertility or unwanted singleness and just going to church is hard because everybody there seems to have kids or a husband. 

Dannah: Right. 

Megan: So, if we define it sort of broadly, I tend to think church is hard for everyone at some point.

Dannah: Yeah. I think that might be right. I once heard a pastor say the reason the Apostles Creed says, “We believe in one holy Church,” I mean, think about it. Other things we say we believe in the Apostles Creed are invisible realities like God, the Father, God, the Son, God, the Holy Spirit, but we believe in one holy Church, because we have to believe that it is becoming what Christ intended for it to become: a pure and holy, blameless, spotless bride. But it's not yet and so here we are in the reality of all of it. 

One of the things that I running through my head as I was anticipating talking to you today, Megan, is the number of people deconstructing right now. I read one book recently that said about 10% of the church is resilient as young adults, meaning about 10% are surviving all of this hurt and deconstructing right now in their twenties. So, do you think that sometimes that deconstructing is happening because of the wounds they've experienced in the body of Christ? 

Megan: Yeah, I think for sure. I mean, when church is hard, it makes you start to think, is it worth showing up? Like, is this really a good thing or not?

Dannah: Yeah, exactly. I'm concerned that it's happened. That's why we have to have the eyes that Portia has, that you had a moment ago, to see the hurt, not just to feel our own hurt. But to take that to the Lord, ask Him to heal us, and then say, “God, give me eyes of empathy through this pain that I've known to see where somebody else in this body needs healing.”

Megan, let's start to get into God's Word and start to solve the problem about how we respond to this. One question I want to start with is, why should we trust God if church hurts? What would you say to that take us to the Word. 

Megan: Yeah. We are Christian women; we know we should trust God. Something hard happens and we say to ourselves, “Oh, I should be trusting God.” That can be kind of empty if we don't actually know what God is like, and we don't know His character, and we don't know why we should trust Him. 

And so, you're so right, that we need to go to the Word of God. We need to go to where He tells us about Himself. And so, you know, when, when you look at say the Psalms, and I just love it when the psalmist says, The Lord is near to the brokenhearted, and He saves those who are crushed in spirit. That's Psalm 34. That Scripture shows us again and again that the Lord is One who cares about people who are hurting, and He's gentle and kind and tender with them. I think that's where we start when we're feeling hurt in church. We go to the God who cares about the brokenhearted and the crushed in spirit.

Dannah: Yeah, run to the Lord when the church hurts you. A lot of women tend to back away from church when they're feeling hurt. I know a woman who still trusts God, she loves the Lord. But she's been very hurt by the body of Christ. So, she's currently attending a church that is not her home church on a regular basis just to avoid the hurt. If there's hurt happening, do we need to keep showing up?

Megan: I think that we do. I think there is sometimes a place for going to a different church. If you find yourself in a church where sin is not being addressed, and God's Word is not being taught, and Jesus is not being followed. Then I think, absolutely, there are times when reluctantly and with much prayer and counsel, that we might go to a different church. But to just not go to church at all, I don't think we see a place in Scripture for that. 

I think it can encourage us that throughout Scripture we see examples of people who were hurt in the church and yet who continued to persist. 

You think even of somebody like Paul. You know the number of times that people slandered him and spoke poorly of him and didn't contribute to his needs and didn't pray for him. And yet, as you read Paul's writing, it's very clear that he's committed to seeing the Church through. He has what Erin said, that vision that he wrote in Ephesians, of the Church made perfect. And so the testimony of scripture is that we persist with the Church until we get to see her holy and perfect on the last day. 

Dannah: Persisting is a key word. I really do believe that's important. And here's why: many years ago when my husband and I were experiencing a lot of church hurt, he had stepped down from a position of leadership because he had confessed to some sin in his life and felt like he needed to address that. He wasn't caught, nobody fired him. He just said, “I'm below the standard of leadership right now. I want to step aside.” 

Well, that got really painful really fast because people started making up all kinds of extra stories that made his sin far worse than it actually was. 

We went to another pastor in town and said, “We can hardly go to church, it just hurts too much. It was months into the process. We still feel like we have spiritual leprosy.” 

And he said, “You have to keep going to church. You have to persist. But what I want to encourage you to do is come to my church in the evenings. We're gonna nurture you, and we're gonna encourage you and gonna fill you back up with love. That's where you're gonna get the healing, but then you have to go back. You have to show up and do the forgiving and the healing of those hearts that are hurting you,” which was unthinkable to us. 

But it gave us a different perspective. I'm so glad we did. Some of our richest friendships came out of persisting in that church where we were experiencing hurt. I'm so glad that pastor didn't say, “Just come to my church, we'll take care of you.” He knew that you need to stay in there. God wants forgiveness. He wants reconciliation. He wants healing in all of your hearts, not just in the hearts of Bob and Dannah. 

What do you do when you meet someone who has experienced pain caused by the body of Christ? What's the first thing you should say to them?

Megan: I'm so sorry. This is really painful. I'm so sorry to hear this. I think being hurt in a church is one of the most painful things that can happen to us. Because we have not only friends and people we have a relationship with, but we have a relationship at the deepest level, which is Christ, which binds us together. 

And so, it's extremely painful to be hurt in the church. So yeah, the first thing I do is listen and say, “I'm so sorry,” before you offer any counsel or any encouragement. Just to be the person who comes alongside and listens.

Dannah: It goes back to the Scripture you were just mentioning, Jesus is near to the brokenhearted. Sometimes our job isn't to fix what people think or believe about what's happening. Just be near them. Save the advice for later and just say, “I see you. I understand it hurts. I've been there.” Megan, you've written a devotional for those who've experienced church hurt. I think it's very interesting that you didn't write a how-to book; why a devotional?

Megan: Yeah, I chose to do a devotional because I do think when you're hurt, sometimes it's hard to read 200 pages in a row. But what you need is maybe a little bit at a time, and definitely what you need is God's Word. 

And so, a devotional is going to take you to the Word of God, give you a passage to read, something to reflect on from God's Word. And it's just one page long. And then the next day, you can go back to God's Word and think a little bit about it and pray through it. And the next day, you can go back to it. And so, it doesn't require a long stretch of reading. But it does require you to read God's Word, which is where our hope really is.

Dannah: I love that, that's so helpful. Because sometimes, depending on the level of churcher, there are times when you have trauma brain, and you can't think clearly. So, a little snippet of truth and little snippets of God's Word are so helpful. As you were writing the book, what was the most groundbreaking thing that you learned from the Lord?

Megan: I think that I was made aware of the fact that Satan hates the church, and that behind your church, there is people’s sin, there's people's weakness, there's just plain old life in a fallen world where things break and things are disappointing. But there's also the evil one who is the enemy of Christ and His people who is trying to stir things up, who's trying to cause her to sin, who's trying to tear down the Church. 

And honestly, that gave me some courage. Like now, I think of going to church as sort of an act of defiance, like saying, “You would like to keep me away, but not today. I'm going today, get out.” And so, I think it's encouraging for us in a weird sort of way to think there's something going on here that's even beyond the realm of what I can see. And it's the evil one, and by God's Spirit, he's not going to win. And so, I can be aware of his tactics here.

Dannah: Yeah. If you don't remember anything else today, remember this we wrestle not with flesh and blood. We wrestle instead with the powers of darkness, the forces of darkness, the evil one. That hurt that you're feeling is not from that woman who said things about you when you were in the kitchen when you were a college student doing your first act of service in the body of Christ. That church hurt in Erin Davis's case, is not that teacher who made her feel like she wasn't welcome at Bible study. That church hurt is not from that editor who decided to write just something stupid about my hair in the school newspaper. 

Our battle is with the enemy. And when you start to think of it in those terms, you begin to respond to those people with forgiveness. With empathy, you start to think, how have they been hurt that they would choose this response to me? And then we become agents of healing in the body of Christ and we start fighting the battles together. Megan, we need this book. I'm so excited. It's coming out this week. It's titled, Sighing on Sunday. What a title, the subtitle 40 Meditations for When Church Hurts. I'm so glad you wrote it. Where can people get a copy?

Megan: Anywhere you buy your books.

Dannah: That's awesome. So, answer I love to hear. We are blessed by you. Keep up the great work at the Gospel Coalition and at your own home church. God bless you for being with us today on Grounded. Portia.

Portia: It was good. I wanted to keep it going. I love me some Megan Hill. And I love me some Dannah Gresh. So, thank you both ladies for just something so needed. 

So, you know who knows a thing or two about your church? Jesus. check out this short clip with Dr. Diane Langberg. She is a psychologist who works with caregivers and clergy around the world. Dannah interviewed her. They were talking specifically about sexual trauma that people in the body of Christ are working to heal from. But we felt that this conversation also applied to church hurt, our topic today. So, let's check it out.

Dannah: Why does it matter that we in the church are equipped to respond to the problem of trauma right now? Why does it matter today?

Dr. Diane Langberg: Well, it's always mattered. But number one, it is a much more public thing. And so, you are much more likely to have people in a church who will at some point say something that indicates that they have been traumatized in some fashion. And the numbers which I've just given, I mean, if you have one in four women, you count off the women in your church and you know that's about how many, and one in six men. You never think about that on a Sunday morning. 

But the bottom line is we follow and are called to be like a suffering Savior. You'll never meet a human with a wound He hasn't born. He's carried them all. He's called us to walk with Him in that place. Obviously we hurt and are suffering people, but we follow a suffering wounded Savior. He takes us into the wounds of the world and asks us to go and to bring Him into that place.

Erin: Strong words. It's always mattered. It matters today. And we want to follow Jesus' lead. We always want to pass along some tools to keep you thinking, to keep you grounded about the things that we talked about here on Grounded. We're going to point you to a blog post today. Of course, we'll put the link right there in the episode notes so you don't have to go hunting for it. But the title is, “To the Woman Who's Thinking of Quitting the Church.” And if that's you, I hope that your heart has been softened by the things that you've heard. I do hope you'll take just a few minutes and read through this blog post. 

Trust me, I get it. I get that temptation. Honestly, that moment when that Bible teacher asked me not to not come back to our class, I wanted to hide and never come back. I felt so embarrassed. It does seem easier to walk away and or just to withdraw. You know, just not go to your women's Bible study as often or just lay down some of your responsibilities. 

But before you do, let me encourage you to take a minute to read this blog post where Cindy Matson offers Godly wisdom and compassion. You're not going to get beat over the head. 

Let me encourage you to pray. That is a step that we must take. Talk to Jesus, the One who has been most wounded by the Church and yet still loves her. 

And then talk to somebody. We love you here on Grounded, and we love being your sisters, we really are. But we can't take you out to coffee and sit and hear your story and encourage you to stay in the fight. So please do that. Please take that step before you walk away. Talk to a trusted friend, a godly counselor. I don't want you to suffer in silence. 

The enemy, as Megan mentioned, wants nothing more. He hates you. More than that, He hates Jesus. He is busy, busy, busy inside the Church. He wants nothing more than to keep you withdrawn and silent and ultimately isolated. 

So, take those steps. Read that blog post. We're gonna put it right at your fingertips. Pray and talk to somebody. We also wanted to remind you of our upcoming online series. 

I hope you know about this already but it is time to pay attention because it’s coming up quickly, Biblical Help for Real Life. The first event happens on June the fourth, and unbelievably, that's very close. And so, You have a special event for those who are praying for a prodigal. And this, of course, dovetails into our conversation because maybe your prodigal blames church hurt as the reason that they've walked away from the faith and maybe even from your family. 

So, we've got a really beautiful and gifted lineup. Mary Kassian is going to be here with us to open God's Word. She'll be our Bible teacher Dr. Joannie DeBrito who has a tremendous amount of expertise in navigating the many challenges of loving the prodigal. Christopher and Angela Yuan are going to be there for a really powerful conversation. If you don't know Christopher's testimony, he was very wayward, truly a prodigal among prodigals. And his story is going to give you a lot of hope. And his mama, Angela Yuan, who was very faithful to pray.

I'll be your host, and we just want you to be there. We want you to be a part of that conversation. 

So, we're going to drop the link in the episode notes to make it very easy for you to register for that event. We want you there.

Dannah: I am excited about that event. I think it will be one of our most needed and best attended of the year because there are so many women I know who are praying for prodigals right now.

As we end today, I feel a Scripture coming to my heart. It's a simple one. Colossians 3:12 says, “As the Lord has forgiven you, so you must also forgive.” 

So much of this church hurt would be put to bed, if we could be forgivers the way that Jesus has forgiven us. So, let's put away the bitterness. Let's put away the anger. Let's put away all the slander. Let's start to be kind to each other. Let's be tenderhearted. And let's start forgiving one another.

Erin: Stop fighting each other and start fighting together for the sake of the gospel, which is what it's called to. Both Portia and Megan have eyes to see women who are hurt. And so we would just also commission you. Of course, it's not your job to heal them. It's not your job to convince them, but it is to be first responders. 

Dannah: There's really one of two responses to this program. One is to get on your knees and forgive those who have hurt you because you're hurt. And the other response is,” Lord, give me the eyes to see where there is hurt so I can be an agent of healing.” And honestly, probably all of us need to do both of them. 

Portia: I agree. We'll see my friend after this and take her some coffee. 

Dannah: Go give Jane a hug from me. 

Portia: I'll go give Jane a hug. 

Next week it’s gonna be hosts only. 

Erin: It’s going to feel like a party when it’s the hosts only. 

Portia: I know! We have a great time. We're gonna be talking about priorities. 

Dannah: I better get mine straight by then. 

Erin: You’ve got one week, Dannah.

Portia: Yes, how we make them, how we keep them, and how we stay grounded in every season. So we're gonna save a seat just for you. Let's wake up with hope together next week on Grounded.

Dannah: Grounded is a listener supported production of Revive Our Hearts calling women to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ

*Offers available only during the broadcast of the podcast season.