How to Teach Our Daughters It’s Good to Be a Girl, with Jen Oshman

Is it good to be a girl? Yes! As women of faith in a world that challenges gender ideologies, we have a responsibility to embrace God’s good design and teach the next generation to do the same. In this episode of Grounded, guest Jen Oshman shares how you can help train young women to live in light of what God says about them.

Connect with Jen

Instagram: @jenoshman
Twitter: @jenoshman
Website: https://www.jenoshman.com/

Episode Notes

• It’s Good to Be a Girl book by Jen Oshman.
• “True Womanhood Looks Like Christ” video with Voddie Baucham.
• True Woman 101 study by Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth and Mary A. Kassian.
• True Woman 201 study by Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth and Mary A. Kassian.
• Soy Niña book by Betsy Gomez.

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Erin Davis: Repeat after me, it's good to be a girl. I’m imagining you sang that line from all around the world where you're watching and listening. But there is a whole generation of girls who aren't sure if that's true. And the question of the day is, “Who is going to point those girls to God's good design?” I'm Erin Davis. This is Grounded. 

And if you follow along, y'all know, I don't have any girls at my house. I have a house full of boys—there's me and all my boys. And so, I knew that I couldn't tackle this topic without some help. So, I am thrilled to welcome my friend, a woman I adore and mama of Grace, to Grounded. Hey, Betsy, so glad you're co-hosting with me today.

Betsy Gómez: I am thrilled to be here with you, my dear Erin. You know that we were together in that boy mom club. 

Erin: Yes, we were. 

Betsy: God surprised us in this household with Grace. I call her my Mexican Treat because she's intense and sweet at the same time. We are so grateful for her now. I have a new motivation to keep learning and understanding and living God's design as a woman. I am so grateful for Grace. 

Erin: Sweet Grace. I actually remember the moment you told me, “It's a girl; we can't believe it.” That was a great moment. 

Well, it's not exactly breaking news that gender ideologies are being challenged and reshaped right in front of our very eyes. And at times, that's happening, not just out there in the wider culture, but it's happening at times in our churches. And so, I'm not here, Grounded is not here to fight any cultural battles. But as women of faith, we do have a responsibility to the next generation. We're gonna talk some about that later. We’ve got to ask how can we expect them to embrace God's good design if they don't see us doing the same? 

Betsy: Yeah. And today, we have so many things that are so exciting to me starting with, Jen Oshman is with us. She's a mom of four girls. She's on a mission to help girls believe and live like it's good to be a girl. And you, Erin, are going to take us to Psalm 78:1–2. You're going to help us get grounded in God's Word. But first, I need good news. So, please give me good news. 

7:47 - Good News (with Erin)

Erin: You’ve got it. I am just gonna be a fly on the wall as Betsy and Jen talk about all things girl. Of course, I have a lot of girls in my life. Even if you're not a mom of girls, this episode is totally for you. You'll find out why as we continue to have this conversation, but we always have to start with good news. 

So, we can definitely tell our children about God's good design, and we should our children, our grandchildren, the kids that are alive. But they're not going to believe what we tell them if we don't live it. So that's why I'm so grateful for the example of women like Granny Saylor. 

I've never met Granny Saylor, but I found her story and wanted to pass it along as today's good news. Granny Saylor started helping out with Awana at her church. If you're not familiar with Awana, it's a program that helps kids memorize a lot of Scripture. Granny Saylor started helping out with Awana at her church in Ohio . . . when she was ninety-nine. She started volunteering for Awana when she was ninety-nine. Yeah, you heard me right. 

She decided to start teaching kids God's Word at that age, ninety-nine. She's a retired teacher. She says it's important to teach what God's Word says to the next generation. She works with the three- and four-year-olds at her church. Each year they have a birthday party for Granny Saylor. They just had a birthday party in her honor. Guess how many years? This birthday party was celebrating her 107th birthday. 

So that means even though she started at ninety-nine, she's been teaching in Awana now for eight years. I think that's proof that it's never too late, and probably never too early, to reach toward the next generation and make a difference. 

Here's a quote from Granny Saylor. She says, “These kids need to know the words of the Bible and what they really mean.” We couldn't agree more. And so from the Grounded family, we say happy birthday to you. Thank you for investing in kids and pointing them to Jesus and His Word. Hope that story put a smile on your face. And you're gonna keep smiling for this conversation between Betsy and Jen. Betsy, take it away.

Betsy: Wow, yeah, that brought a smile to my face and to my heart. That's incredible. 

9:50 - Grounded with God's People (with Jen Oshman)

Well, we have Jen Oshman, and I am so honored to have this conversation with her. She's an author, podcaster, pastor's wife, mom of four daughters. That is incredible. I can relate in the opposite way because I have three boys. She has served as a missionary and church planter for over two decades in three continents. She currently resides in Colorado where she is the director of women's ministry at Redemption Park. So, welcome to Grounded, Jen.

Jen Oshman: Thank you so much, Betsy. This is so sweet to be here. I'm so glad to be here. Thank you.

Betsy: I remember my first contact with you was through Eileen Merck. I don't know if you remember. I am so grateful. 

Jen: Yes. 

Betsy: Yeah, for her and for you and for all that you're doing to inspire a new generation to embrace God's beautiful design. 

Jen: Thank you. 

Betsy: So, you've written a new children's book titled It's Good to Be a Girl. So, what was God's stirring in your heart that prompted you to write this book?

Jen: Well, the last book I wrote was called Cultural Counterfeits. And there is a chapter in that book called, “It's Good to Be a Girl.” I really wanted that chapter in this children's book to really just proclaim the goodness that it is to be a girl, that God made us good and necessary. 

And so, my thought was, I want to be able to say this to the youngest girls to our littlest sisters. And so, the book is a beautifully illustrated children's book. I just want them to be hearing and rehearsing and their caregivers, their parents, rehearsing over them from their earliest days, that God made you good. He made you with intention, and He made you necessary, so that little girls might grow up just with that feeling overflowing in their hearts.

Betsy: Yeah. Going back to that book you wrote before, I think this will serve as a lamp in order to bring light to those lives. I would love for you to tell us like what are some lies that our culture tells us about what it means to be a girl?

Jen: Boy, I just think this conversation has been so complicated, and probably it has been forever. I'm imagining that ever since the garden really, and for Adam and Eve this is probably something when it comes to gender and how we might serve God and serve one another. This is an issue that has been murky for millennia. 

But of course, I've only been alive in this one. And I've raised four girls in this one and have been really involved in women's ministry in this particular time and place that God ordained that I would live.

So I've kind of seen, Betsy, and maybe you have too, but I feel like the conversation can fall off a ditch on both sides. There can be a conversation that's held maybe inside the Church or inside more conservative circles, where what it means to be a girl is all about what you can't do and proud to be so careful in the conversations full of warnings, and it feels like a heavy, more negative conversation. 

Or there's conversations happening in culture where things are much more progressive. There's this idea of like, you don't even have to be a girl. In fact, how about this freedom if you recreate your identity and your gender and your sexuality. 

So, I feel like the conversation can just really get derailed in multiple directions. I wanted to offer a voice that is hopeful and celebratory. The book is written in kind of a fun tone and offers really deep truths, but I wanted to communicate it in a way that was fun and kind of sing songy to tell little girls and just kind of bring it back. We don't have to fall off this way, and we don't have to fall off that way. What if we just opened God's Word and celebrated the goodness that is in there, because it is in there. But I'm afraid some of these voices are so loud that we miss them.

Betsy: Yeah. And it brings us back to the point that our starting point is the Bible, and that's the source for truth. So, if I would ask you, what does the Bible say? What does it say what's the meaning for womanhood? For a girl? What does it mean to be a girl?

Jen: Yeah, I think that we could spend an entire semester in seminary class on this topic and never run out of things to say. So, it's difficult to distill it down into a short children's book. But one thing that I wanted to highlight . . . So the book starts with a mother and daughter chatting with each other. They talk about when Eve was created, and they look at some women in the Old Testament in the New Testament, and then women in history, and also women today. 

It kind of goes through this whole thing of looking how God made her look, how God made her. The illustrations are beautiful, the illustrator, I'm so thankful for her beautiful work. It's intended to just be inspiring and encouraging. 

So I do start with the creation of Eve. I think we should probably go back to Genesis when it comes to identity and who we are as humans and the image of God that we were created in. We really do need to go back to Genesis chapter one and two. There's so much for our current cultural trends and topics and crises that can be addressed in Genesis chapter one. 

I want to communicate to little girls that Eve was not an afterthought. Eve is not sort of second class, though she was created second. The Lord intended for her to be created good and necessary from before the foundation of the world even. And so, He put thought and design and intention into who Eve is. She's meant to be an ally, sort of a teammate, a partner, a helper in the best sense of the word to Adam. And I think even just that Genesis one and two passage can get so confusing from a really hard conservative perspective, or a really hard liberal perspective. I just want to simplify it and say, the Lord knew that He was going to create Eve. He had a design for her, and it's good and necessary. We should celebrate the necessity that we have, all women.

Betsy: Amen. I love it, especially like going back to what you said that your intention was to proclaim goodness. There's so much goodness that the world is trying to blur. In starting with God, He is good and everything He's done is good. So, I would love to know, are there any biblical or historical women that you look up to, or you have taught your daughters to look up to?

Jen: Certainly, I mean, one of our favorite things in our home as the girls were growing up was to read different biographies. I just love to be able to share somebody else's life story with them and the unique place that those women were in and how God resourced them and used them and allowed them to serve others. But yeah, so actually, even in the book, we were really intentional about choosing just a diversity of women from the Old Testament, the New Testament, as well as women in history. 

So, you'll see in there you Miriam, who got used when she was very young. Esther who got used in such a unique situation. There's more in the Old Testament, but also the New Testament. I think of Lydia, the business woman, but also Mary and Martha who sat at Jesus’ feet and served through hospitality, or Eunice who taught the gospel to Timothy and what that produced. 

And in history, we point to Harriet Tubman and her bravery in leading people out of slavery into freedom, Esther Anne Kim who was in prison for her faith in Japan. There's just so many women we can look back to and draw on. 

And so, as a mom, I have always wanted to set those stories before my girls because there is not a cookie cutter approach to honoring the Lord. I mean, we are as diverse as He is creative, and He's very creative. So, the ways that He's enabled us to be resourced and skilled or educated, gifted, passionate, and then placed us exactly where we are, that's going to look so different across humanity. I think that's such a gift. I want to be able to say, “Hey, you don't have to follow the Lord just like this. But how has He made you? And how would you honor Him with what He's given you?”

Betsy: That's beautiful. We are as diverse as God is creative. I love it. Yes. So, there's something really special about your book. Your co-author, and I was so amazed when I saw that and it was so sweet, tell us about Zoe. 

Jen: Yes, I would love to. So, I have four daughters. Zoe is my firstborn. She I began to write this book on an airplane actually. I felt really just inspired in a moment. Like, I want to put this down in writing for children. So, I began to write it. I texted the very rough first draft to my whole family and said, “Hey, I'm working on this book idea. What do you guys think?” 

Zoe immediately responded and said, “I love this. Can I please help you write it?” 

And I thought as a mom, Well, what better is that? “Of course? Yes, absolutely. Yes, you can help me write it.” 

She already had gone away to college at that point. And so when she would come home, we would sit on the couch and bounce these ideas around and put pen to paper. And really, just arm and arm worked on this draft together. We both feel really excited about what the Lord allowed us to do and very grateful to Him for it. It was sweet to write it with her.

Betsy: How sweet. It's incredible how the Lord gave you this message. But now you can share it with your daughter, to invite other girls to walk into the light. That is such a beautiful example of a mother investing in her life, and at the same time, you both investing in other girls. I think that is an amazing experience the Lord has given you and now we are able to experience that while reading your book. 

So I want to ask you a question, “How would you compare your experience of being a girl growing up with your daughter's experience?” Because even though you're together, like writing this book, but I guess you live in two different worlds, but they collide in the same truth. How was that different for you and your girls?

Jen: I think it was so different, which is kind of remarkable when you think about it. I grew up in a context where God was not necessarily the foundation or central. I did come to know Him over time. But my home and my upbringing, the people around me, were not pointing me to the Lord. I did have wonderful mentors and teachers and coaches who were very . . . I grew up right after Title Nine came into being. For the listeners who don't know what that means, here in America where we girls were given the funding and the empowerment to have our sports teams or our classrooms or our clubs like the boys had. 

So, I was one of the first generations after Title Nine. So, I had these wonderful adults in my life saying sweet things like, “You got this. Go getter. You're strong. You're capable. You're an amazing girl. Go do it.” Those words meant well. They believed in me, but they did lack an unmovable foundation that is only found in God. The foundation they were giving me was only rooted in me. So, I grew up feeling like they are saying I can do it and I got this, so I better pull myself up by my bootstraps and make it true because I'm all I've got. While the phrases and the cheering came from a good place, it actually lacked a sure foundation. 

And so, what I always wanted to instill in my girls is your performance does not matter. If you make the grade or not that is not the point. If you make the team, if you get the part in the musical, these are not the things that create who you are. This is not your identity. Your identity is already secure in the God who made you, and nothing can change that, nothing can separate you from His love. In Christ you are approved of, and no bad grade or even sin that you commit will remove that truth. So that's part of what I really tried to instill in my daughters, even on a daily basis. “Go love the Lord and love others. But it's not about your performance.” 

I hope that that comes through in the book as well, because that's a heavy burden to bear, to think that it's on you, when really it's the God who made us and died to save us. It's on Him. That's great news.

Betsy: Amen. I see you like looking at myself. My daughter is four years old, so you have way more experience than me. So, I need your wisdom. Tell me some things that you think I need to know as a mom of a younger girl. What gives you hope when you think of raising a new generation of girls.

Jen: You know, it's funny. I'm sure this happens when you three boys. But when people hear that I have four girls, inevitably, automatically they say, “Oh my goodness, that must be so hard. Oh, your poor husband.” All these silly things come flying out of people's mouths. I'm like, “We are so blessed. We're so thankful. Raising four girls has been an absolute adventure.” Now, it's not without difficulty. We are all sinners in this household. 

And so, there is difficulty. But I think what I want to proclaim in those conversations and proclaim on this podcast and through this book is it really is good to be a girl. It really is good to raise girls. God's design is perfect. He made no mistakes. There's nothing that He did without a beautiful purpose and intention. And so, girlhood really is good, and raising girls really is good. 

May we embrace that as a culture, may we really wrap our hearts and minds around, it is good to be a girl. Let's raise up a generation of girls who believe that, who don't question it, or wonder or waver, but instead look to the God who made them, and can thank Him for their design. And also, ask Him for help as they live out what that means in this generation.

Betsy: Amen. Thank you, Jen. We're so grateful for you. We pray that the Lord will use this book to inspire both parents and kids about the goodness of God, that God will use it, as you said, to proclaim goodness, over these families that will be in touch with this resource. So, where can people find out more about your new book?

Jen: Sure. You can find me anywhere on social media, Jen Oshman, or my website, JenOshman.com. The book releases on May 1. You could go to Amazon now and pre-order it, which would be a delight, It's Good to Be a Girl.

Betsy: Great. Thank you so much. Now, it's time to get grounded in God's Word. So, Erin, take it.

25:58 - Grounded in God's Word (with Erin)

Erin: I'm ready. I actually gleaned so much from that conversation, and I'm sure you did, too. But we never want to have an episode of Grounded where we don't open our Bibles. That's what we're here for. God's Word is the source, the source of hope and perspective that we need each day. 

So today, let's turn to the Psalms, Psalm 78. Specifically, I've already turned there. So, while you're turning there, I'd like to remind you of something. Serving Jesus is generational work. I don't know who's listening to the sound of my voice right now. Maybe you have children of your own still at home like I do. Maybe you're a grandparent. Maybe you're single, or you don't have children for a variety of reasons. 

But regardless of what your family looks like, regardless of what mine looks like, all of us who are in Christ have a responsibility, a mission, a calling whatever you want. It's not optional to point the next generation to Jesus. 

Listen to Psalm 78. I'm actually going to read us one through eight and then we'll unpack it a little bit. 

Give ear, O my people, to my teaching;
   incline your ears to the words of my mouth!
I will open my mouth in a parable;
   I will utter dark sayings from of old,
things that we have heard and known,
   that our fathers have told us.
[That's the beginning of the generational language in this Psalm.]
We will not hide them from their children,
   but tell to the coming generation
the glorious deeds of the LORD, and his might,
   and the wonders that he has done.
[We want to teach them what God's done.]

He established a testimony and Jacob
   and a pointed a new law in Israel,
which he commanded our fathers
   to teach their children,
that the next generation might know them,
   the children and yet unborn,
and arise and tell them to their children,
   so that they should set their hope and God
and not forget the works of God,
   but keep is commandments;
and that they should not be like their fathers,
   a stubborn and rebellious generation,
a generation whose heart was not steadfast,
   whose spirit was not faithful to God.

The psalmist says, “Listen, God's not evil. God has told us that we're supposed to talk about Him from generation to generation. We're supposed to point out the beauty of who God is. But we're also supposed to give warnings about the ways we got it wrong in our generation.

And when the Church tells the story of this generation, are they going to say we got it wrong? Are they going to say that in the face of a lot of cultural commentary on gender and identity and sexuality and all of that, it's all tied together, that we were silent, or worse, that we adopted ideas from the world that don't come from the Word? 

What can we possibly offer? Is a good question. I feel ill-equipped. I bet you feel ill-equipped to disciple someone else in the area of gender identity. I would say that's good, because that's not the goal. Anyway, listen again to verse 4, “Tell the coming generation of the glorious deeds of the Lord and His might and the wonders he has done.” 

What are we supposed to be pointing the next generation to? Not necessarily our ideas about gender but who God is and what He's done. 

So has God reshaped your own ideas about your identity? He certainly has reshaped mine. Has God corrected wrong thinking in you? Has God along the way graciously taught you that He's the designer and His design is good, good. Start there. Start with what God has done in your own life. 

But remember your “why?” Listen again to verses 6–8: 

that the next generation might know them,
   the children and yet unborn,
and arise and tell them to their children,
   so that they should set their hope and God
and not forget the works of God,

So, our primary mission is not to get the next generation to think like we think about gender, about sexuality, about, well, anything. Our primary mission is to point the next generation to Jesus, to the gospel, to the sufficiency of Scripture. And to pray like the psalmist has taught us to pray, that they will put their hope in God, that they would not be like the generations who have gone before them stubborn and rebellious, as the psalmist said.

Now, as I said, I don't have any daughters of my own. But that doesn't mean I don't have many opportunities to show the girls in my world that my hope is built on the solid rock of Jesus. And that’s because He designed me. He gets to define me. The lesson plan for the next generation is our lives. That's what God uses to teach those around us what he has done for us. 

And so, to help you think through what you're teaching, maybe inadvertently to the girls around you, here's some diagnostic questions. You can write them down. We’ll drop them in the chat, on Facebook and YouTube so you can come back to them. 

But here's some questions for you to think about.

Do I look to God's Word to define my identity?

As Christians, our reflex might be yes. But if we think critically and we invite the Spirit into that analysis, we probably will realize that we're also looking to some other things to give us our identity.

Do I live submitted to the Lord? Or do I in some ways resist His Lordship designed for me?

Do I enjoy the way God made me?

Here's a really practical example. I've noticed that when women start crying, the first thing we say is, “I'm sorry.” Why? As if there's something wrong with crying. God made us with those sensitivities and made us with these tear ducts. Although there's a lot of parts of womanhood that are a lot easier to be begrudging towards than to celebrate, but God made us this way.

So, do you enjoy the ways God made you as a woman?

Do you see ultimately if you had to put it in one of two categories? Do you see your womanhood as a blessing or a burden?

Jen’s whole point was that it's good to be a girl. Do you believe that? Or did you somewhere along the line decide that life would be easier or better or more meaningful if He had made you a man or a boy?

Am I intentionally teaching the next generation about what God has done in my own life?

Is my hope in God so that others can see that?

I have to wrestle with those questions myself. They don't come with easy answers. But they are a roadmap of sorts, to see if we're living out what Psalm 78, and all of Scripture, calls us to.

I want to wrap up with a little story. I was teaching at a women's event a couple of weekends ago. We were at a table with a bunch of women from different demographics. There were a couple of college age women there. A couple of us started having kind of a side conversation about young adults, and how many seem to be practical, and how so many seem to be buying into the lies of the culture. We weren't being very positive at all. 

And one of those college aged women at my table listened to that conversation for a while. And then she said very quietly, “I believe there's revival in my generation.” Well she would know it. She's living through it.

I felt deeply convicted that I had kind of thrown away a whole generation in my mind. She reminded me that God's at work in every generation because He's a generational God. And so when we join in the generational work of telling the next generation of young women and girls about the kingdom, we're joining Him on His mission. 

So, a reminder, God is at work in every generation. He always will be until He comes back for us. He is at work calling young women and girls to Himself. He is at work right now helping them reform their identity according to His Word, and you can be a part of that. 

I want to wrap up this segment with a prayer that comes from Psalm 79, just one chapter from where we just were in Psalm 78. Psalm 79, verse 13, 

“But we your people, the sheep of your pasture, will give you give thanks to you forever, forever. From generation to generation, we will recount your praise.” 

Make it so Lord. 

Betsy: Amen 1000 times. Well, God's plan for our girls isn't about fitting some list. It's bigger than that. So let's watch this short clip from Pastor Voddie Baucham.

35:42 - “True Womanhood Looks Like Christ” video with Voddie Baucham

Voddie Baucham: True womanhood looks like Proverbs 31, it looks like Titus 2, but something else. True womanhood looks like Christ. That is something we often forget. We're so busy with looking at these practical lists of the qualities that women have or the things that women do and prioritize, and we forget that true womanhood really only begins when a woman comes to Jesus Christ in repentance and faith, she is transformed and conformed to the image of Christ. 

So, true womanhood is about Christlikeness. Feminism has been the serpent of our day, telling women there's something more out there, that biblical womanhood stuff is trying to hold you back. 

And so, I think this movement is a reflection of the fact that women in particular, and our culture in general, has paid a tremendous price for taking a bite of that fruit. You just turn away from feminism and ultimately what you get in some many instances is just feminism light, or feminism in another direction. 

But you have to turn into repentance, which is turning from your sin, and turning to God. When we turn to God, we turn back to that picture of womanhood that is a reflection of the image of God and a picture of womanhood. That is an illustration of the relationship between Christ and His Church to that Church and that redemptive reality.

Erin: Say it Pastor Voddie. If Portia was here she'd be throwing her shoe. I hope you heard that throughout this whole episode. We didn't talk about clothing style or activities or any of those things that we sometimes want to simplify this to, but about giving God all the glory.

We always want to point you to the good stuff. We’ve got some good stuff to point you to. If you are not aware, Revive Our Hearts has two really foundational studies: True Woman 101 and True Woman 201. If you are wrestling with this idea of, is being a girl good? Is being a woman good? What does Scripture really have to say? We would point you to those. Start there. There are videos that go with them. But they're just really foundational teaching on some of the things that we've been talking about. So, we want you to check them out. We'll drop the link, of course.

Betsy: I love those resources. At our church, we’re starting our journey with True Woman 101. We're gonna do that for a year. So instead of weeks, we're gonna do that in eight months. Because, yeah, we will dive in that. And Erin, I am so excited about the launching of my new children's book in Spanish. Soy Nina—I am a Girl.

Erin: Okay, translate for me. What’s it mean?

Betsy: Soy Nina, is I am a Girl.  I am a girl. So, I was like hyperventilating when I was listening to Jen, because we share the same heart for most of the things that she said. I think the Lord is raising up a new generation of women that are calling . . .

Erin: Aw, there’s little Grace. 

Betsy: Yes, there’s little Grace and Moise. He's the one who's opening the Bible. Signaling the fathers that will open this book with their girls. They have a role too to play in building women of God. 

So, this book celebrates the wonderful gift of womanhood. And we see that through the grand narrative of redemption. I know that it will equip both fathers and mothers, giving them the language and what they need in order to disciple their girls. And I would say, disciple their boys on biblical womanhood, because that's very important.

Erin: Yeah, I love that. This is just evidence that Grounded is the Lords. I didn't know about that book. I knew I needed a co-host, Portia and Dannah had other obligations for this episode. And the Lord brought you to mind. You said, “What's the topic? Who's the guest?” I told you. So that's all the Lord. He's so good. 

We're gonna drop the link to Betsy's book. We're gonna drop the link to preorder Jen's book. We'll drop the link to True Woman 101 and 201, because we want to get those things right at your fingertips while you're thinking about them because these things are really important. 

Well, it was a beautiful episode. It was a God-glorifying episode. I'm walking away reminded that it is good to be a girl, and I am responsible to first model that and then point the young women in my world to them. So Betsy, thank you for being my co-host. I love you.

Betsy: I love you too. And maybe you are already teaching girls in Sunday school or maybe leading a Bible study with girls and it doesn't seem to be making a difference. So, if that's you, you need to come back next week because Amanda Kassian is going to show us why local women's ministry matters so much. I love that topic, so I'll there. 

Erin: Me too. I think you're going to be encouraged and strengthened. So let's wake up with hope together next week on Grounded. We love you.

Betsy: Grounded audio is powered by Skype. Grounded is a listener supported production of Revive Our Hearts, calling women to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ. 

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