Persecution, Perseverance, and the Key to Sustaining Faith, with Karen Ellis

Today more than 360 million Christians experience high levels of persecution and discrimination. How then should we pray? And do you have what it takes to endure similar hardships? Let Karen Ellis cast a vision for steadfast faith in this stirring episode of Grounded. 

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Episode Notes

"How Does It Feel to Be an 'Old Lady'?" video

"Endurance Is a Team Sport" blog post by Cindy Matson

"For the One Who Is Weary" blog post by Cindy Matson

Register for the True Woman ’22 conference

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Erin Davis: What does it look like for Christians to patiently endure persecution? That's a big question, and it's one we're going to wrestle with in today's episode of Grounded. I'm Erin Davis.

Portia Collins: I'm Portia Collins, and we are here to give you an infusion of hope and perspective. And this morning we specifically want to consider Scripture’s perspective on the persecuted church.

Erin: If you're watching this live or listening to the podcast on YouTube or Facebook, there's two things I want to ask you to do. I want you to share this episode. If you live in a part of the world where persecution is normal, it's frequent, then you know how important this is. And if you don't, then you need to know. So spread the word that this episode has something for the Church. 

The other thing I want you to do is I want you to tell us in the chat where you're from, because we're going to be talking about the endurance of the global Church. I always think it's so helpful to get a picture of what God's doing all around the world. And Grounded, you are a representation of that global Church. So, if you're watching live, step up to the chat, let us know where you're from so we can get that vision for how God is moving in people's hearts around the world.

Portia: Right. And you know, we say this all the time, we tell you to share. We tell you to get in the chat.

Erin: We do!

Portia: But we really mean it. Okay?

Erin: We really want you to do it. 

Portia: Yes, we really want you to do it. I was smiling when you were saying that because I was thinking they're probably saying I heard it. They tell us to do this all the time. You know, I'm excited about every episode of Grounded.

Erin: You are. You’re our hype woman. 

Portia: Oh, hey, I'm happy to be, okay. I'm really excited because Karen Ellis is back with us. You may remember Karen from a previous episode on prayer being our most powerful weapon. Well, today she's coming to talk to us a little bit more. She's here to give us a vision for what it looks like for followers of Jesus to patiently endure persecution, marginalization, and more.

Erin: I know January's when people usually pick a word of the year. I don't often do that. But as I was studying for this episode, I thought maybe endurance is my new word. I want to be a Christian who endures.

My highest hope for you Grounded women, Portia and I and Dannah and our team, we show up here week after week because we have hopes and dreams for you. My highest hope for you is that you would be Christians that would endure. 

In fact, as a Bible teacher and just someone who loves ministering to the Church, I have this growing burden on my heart. And that is to help women be prepared for steadfastness. I think the writing's on the wall, isn't it? It's not going to get easier to be a follower of Jesus. We're not the home team anymore, which means we've lost the home team advantage. And something that we've been used to at least where I live for a long time—just the kind of acceptance and encouragement of Christianity. I see it fading even in my rural area where I live. 

I was at a conference not long ago. I was sitting next to a woman I'd never met and oh, a senior saint she was, probably in her eighties. All of a sudden she turned to me and said, “Erin, there's going to be a great falling away.” And I was like, “Oh, say it ain't so Lord.” So I want to see us standing strong. I think this episode's gonna make that happen.

Portia: Yeah. In as much as we don't want don't want to admit that. That lady that you were sitting by, she is wise. Because that's exactly . . .

Erin: Something on my insides went, she’s right. 

Portia: She's right. She's right. Well, it's not Grounded without good news. I am excited this morning that Erin you're bringing us some good news, so give us a reason to smile. 

Erin: Yeah, usually Portia girl is our good news correspondent. I'm glad I get to bring the sunshine today. I want you to meet Earl. Here he is. We had a photo of Earl. Better yet, I want you to join me in wishing Earl . . . There he is right by his tractor. I'll tell you more about him in just a second. I don't want you to just see him. I want you in your heart to wish Earl a happy birthday, because this Minnesota beet farmer just turned 105 You heard me right. He's 105 years old and just crossed that birthday off his list. Is it the beets that have given Earl such lasting vitality? I don't know but I think they're a superfood. But no, girl. Earl says that his long life comes from something important, staying amazed by what God has done. 

Here's a little quote from Earl in honor of his birthday. “I like the fresh air for one thing, and I like to see the crops grow and see what God has done. A fella has to have a lot of faith. When you have a little seed and you get a crop like this.” 

I agree Earl. That's Romans 1 that we can see God's nature in what He's made. It does take some faith to believe him. The seed in the ground I'm going to get a beat from it in a few months. So what advice from this centenarian. (I probably said that wrong.) That's what you get when you cross the 100. Finish Line. What's his advice? Work hard, and always keep God at the center of your life. I've got one more Earlism for us to think about this morning. 

He said, “Remember that God is in control. You've got to have Him with you.” Also, he said, “Don't forget to stop and smell the roses.” He said, “I didn't work much on Sundays. And I still made a good living.” Sorry, Earl. I butchered your quote, but you said it better than I am. So today, we're going to consider how do we persevere in our Christian faith? And Earl, you're going to be our poster child for this. We celebrate you. Happy 105th birthday. Back to you, Portia.

Portia: Oh, look, I have a special place in my heart. I love babies. And then I love the seasoned senior saints. 

Erin: Me too. 

Portia: And that just gave me the biggest smile. 

Erin: So, maybe he will adopt me as his granddaughter. Earl, take me under your wing. 

Portia: Look, you got a lot of grandparents around here. 

Erin: I’m always trying to get people to adopt me. 

Portia: Well, I am excited to have Karen Ellis with me this morning. Karen is the director of the Center for the Study of the Bible and Ethnicity. Can I get it out? Yeah, at Reformed Theological Seminary. She's also a doctoral candidate at the Oxford Center for mission studies in Oxford, England. And guess what? She's gonna be at True Woman’22. She is one of our speakers and leading a breakout session on personal persecution, perseverance, and the key to sustaining faith. So welcome, Karen.

Karen Ellis: Thank you so much, Portia. I'm so happy to see your precious face this morning. 

Portia: Likewise.

Karen: Thanks for having me on.

Portia: Likewise. Well, I want to open up with a few stats from last year. And so, check this out, over 360 million Christians are living in places where they experience high levels of persecution and discrimination. 5,898 Christians are killed for their faith or have been killed for their faith in the past year. 5,110 churches and other Christian buildings have been attacked or vandalized. And then, 4,765 believers have been detained without trial, arrested and sentenced or imprisoned. 

So, bearing those stats in mind, there is no question. And this is just in a year's time—not even just in the total number of years in the history of the Church, just a year. 

There's no question that the church as a whole is facing persecution. And here in the West, I think many of us don't understand the depth of persecution or what that actually looks like for many of our brothers and sisters across the globe.

So, here's my question, how can believers begin to rethink this whole notion of the persecuted Church versus the non-persecuted Church? I mean, sometimes we segment it. How can we begin to rethink this?

Karen: We usually take people straight to Paul talking about the body life. When you hear these stories, we kind of tend to have a fairly romantic view of the persecuted church, not fully understanding what it is on the day to day. So organizations try to bring in stories and try to give you contours of what actually is happening around the world. But they begin to be real when we realize that it's not news, this is family business. We are connected, and we should feel those connections, because of our primary identity in Christ. If we are one, as the Lord prayed for us to be and declare that we are through union with Him, then we should be able to begin to feel those. Those reconnections, those muscles and sinews and synapses and nerves connect so that when one of us suffers, we actually understand that we're all suffering. 

There's something really interesting happening that I think is going to help people in the freer world, Christians in the freer world, understand what it's like to live under anti-Christian hostility on the daily. There's this new infusion of info, not just information, not just stories of perseverance and endurance under hostility. But people are beginning to write and publish now, from the persevering world. I'm thinking of organizations like the Center for House Church Theology that's publishing the sermons of Wang Yi, who's now incarcerated in China, 4 to 10 years of hard labor. The house churches in China are beginning to publish their thoughts, their theologies of how they're approaching living in a context that's hostile towards the name of Christ, that's hostile towards seeing people be set free from the from the oppression of unbelief. 

And so, we're also seeing this coming from a few other places that I can't name explicitly. But it's really exciting movement to see these works now coming in and the Church is beginning to speak to herself across linguistic and geographic lines. I think that that's going to be a real help in understanding what life is like, but an encouragement and also opportunity for us to learn some things as we kind of expect as we're losing the perks of the dominant culture.

Portia: Yeah.

Karen: This isn't your daddy's America anymore. You can't even assume that people know who Jesus was, or who He is, what He's come to do, what He's accomplished on our behalf. 

So, it's a troubling time. There's so much increase in persecution in the world. But it's also a really exciting time as the Church begins to rediscover who she really is on a lot of different levels.

Portia: Amen, amen. What a way to reframe our thinking when it comes to persecution? You know, prior to you saying all of that, I don't even think I would have used the word exciting because sometimes when we think about persecution, we automatically think about suffering and how hard suffering is and how uncomfortable it is. And for many people, including myself, I am not exempting myself, we have a tendency to want to rush through those moments of suffering, and we can't see how God is moving and what God is doing through what He's permitting. 

And so, it's just hard, it's hard for us to deal with. We want to just scoot right past it. So, I guess my question is, my follow up question is, what does it look like for believers to patiently endure persecution?

Karen: You know, the New Testament gives us the the continuation of the story of the people of God that was started in Genesis. The Lord created people for Himself. And God promised that He was going to keep that people. And He says, He's going to fulfill that promise. He fulfilled it through His death on the cross, and then He glorifies His people. 

So, He's in the process. He's in the business of keeping that promise. 

And what we're missing is that there is suffering for a purpose. Remembering who that purpose is not what that purpose is, but who that purpose is. 

That's where anxiety turns to adventure. I always say that's gonna be my T-shirt. I need to get some T-shirts that say anxiety to adventure, because I too have a lot of cultural anxiety. Nobody wants to suffer physically. Even Jesus facing the cross, and His suffering on the cross, you know, nevertheless, not My will but Yours be done. 

I'm going to unpack this quite a bit at the conference coming up. But that is the prayer. That's the prayer point, where our anxiety becomes adventure. It's the prayer where we invite Heaven’s rule and we say okay, nevertheless, not the way I want things to be but the way that You are establishing things in the way that You're establishing things. 

My husband has to remind me all the time because I am a nevertheless not Your will but mine be done kind of person. My default is set to turn the prayer around so it benefits me, or I think it benefits me. But he's always reminding me that when we pray, we have to leave room for God to answer the prayer according to how He sees it unfolding, not how we think He should answer it. 

And so, in answer to your question, and also Erin's question leading up to this conversation, too, what is that place? What are those keys to endurance under suffering, endurance under hostility? I think that the Bible answers that well by saying prayer, surrendered prayer, and remembering the hope to which we've been called the reason why we suffer. We're not suffering for nothing. He does not delight in our suffering. He's not happy about oppression. He's not happy about injustice. As a matter of fact, He's so displeased by it, that He will redeem it. He will make it right. He balances the scales, because He's the only one who could do it perfectly. When He balances justice and mercy perfectly either in this life or the next, we will all be satisfied with how he sets the scales, right.

Portia: Yes, yes. I'm glad you're leading us right into prayer, because that is something that I wanted to tell. I've heard you say time and time again, throughout the entire time that I've known you, I've heard you say the phrase, “prayer is action.” And that has really impacted me because it has made me realize that prayer is not just this passive thing. Sometimes people think that prayer is inadequate, and it's not. 

And so, I want to talk about how important it is for us to pray for those who are in the middle of heavy persecution, and even those of us who are not, how can we better pray for our persecuted brothers and sisters.

Karen: Right, there's a difference between urgent circumstantial prayers, which we need those, we need prayer for those. But there's also there's a difference between that and kingdom-oriented prayers. And when we are praying kingdom-oriented prayers, we're actually praying with that hope and with that acceptance of God's sovereignty. We're praying in line with the with the principles of the kingdom. 

It's amazing to me how often prayer and the Word appear together in Scripture—prayer in the sacrament of the Word. And so, it's marrying those two allows me to pray for my brothers and sisters. I may not know all the details of their circumstances. But I know that if I'm praying Scripture, I'm praying in harmony with God's will for all of our lives, for all of us as a body. 

And so, I think it’s essential to locking into how to pray for the body is to pray the Word, to literally pray through Scripture. I love God's Word because when you pray His Word back to Him, He can’t say no, right? He's already agreed with His Word; He is the Word. And so, there's an excitement that comes, and there is a unification. I think that happens when we marry those two on behalf of the persecuted Church.

Portia: Yeah, absolutely. So let me ask you this, you say talking about praying God's Word. What passage of Scripture comes to mind when you think of what victory looks like as it pertains to persevering to the end, enduring to the end?

Karen: There's so many, that's like asking me to choose children. The one that comes to mind, the one that comes to mind first is that He will never leave us nor forsake us. He is with us until the very end of the age, Matthew 28. And that promise is a promise that you can track throughout Scripture. 

We were created in His presence. We rebelled and lost His presence. He gave us His presence in the form that the children of Israel could carry around with them. He has kept that promise. That promise wasn't just given when He was incarnated as He was fully God and fully man. He keeps that promise all the way to the point where He gathers the nations in, of all the people from all the tongues and all the tribes who have believed on His name. He harmonizes us around His throne and He says, “Now see, I promised you're still with Me.”

So, holding on to that when you are in the slew of despond. I'm doing Pilgrim’s Progress with my granddaughter right now. When you're in the genuine slew of despond and you can't find the way out, knowing that He sits with you in the valley of darkness. He is the lily in the valley, because the valley is dark and barren and has no beauty, but He is there. 

So, just embracing fully that knowledge that no matter what we suffer, whether it's isolation, for circumstances of false imprisonment, or isolation because of cultural circumstances, or rejection, He is with us. That is a beautiful passage to me when it's fully fleshed out and seen in the whole counsel of Scripture.

Portia: Amen. Well, I asked you to close our time out together by praying.

Karen: I’d love to. 

Father, I thank You for Portia and the women here on this podcast. I thank You so much for the upcoming conference. I thank You for each one who is listening today. God, I pray that You would press on our hearts the knowledge and assurance of the truth that You are as present sitting next to us while we listen to this prayer as You are in glory where we see Your face when we upturn ours. 

God, I thank You for Your promised presence. I pray that You would help each of us to know it tangibly throughout the day and to accept it by faith when we can't feel Your presence next to us God. God we don't have to ask You to be with us because You already are, so thank you. Thank You for the provision of Your presence. And we praise You until the day we can praise You around Your throne with upturned faces. In Jesus’ name we thank You, amen.

Portia: Amen. You just got me geared up and ready to see you in person at True Woman ’22.

Karen: I'm gonna hug your neck, girl.

Portia: Same, thank you so much for being with us. And thank you for the wisdom that you shared today, Karen. 

Karen: Bless you. Bless His name, amen.

Portia: Well, when I think of Christians with endurance, I think of Susan Hunt. I love me some Susan Hunt. She is a woman who has walked with the Lord and served Him faithfully for decades. So, let's watch this short clip of Susan.

Susan Hunt: I love the prayer in the hymn of “Sacred Head Now Wounded.” It goes like this. Make me then forever. And should I fainting be. Lord let me never, ever outlive my love for Thee. That's my prayer, my comfort. And my confidence is even if I live my love for Jesus, I will never outlive His love for me. 

He tells us in Isaiah 46:

. . . you whom I have upheld since your birth,
and have carried since you were born.
Even to your old age and gray hairs
I am he, I am he who will sustain you.
I have made you and I will carry you;
I will sustain you and I will rescue you.

So how does it feel to be an old lady? It feels like a tired, dependent, happy, little girl being carried in the arms of her Father. And she's calling to her friends. “Look how good and strong my daddy is.” And she knows that when she falls asleep in His arms, she'll wake up at home.

Erin: We've played that clip of Susan before, but I don't know about you. I need to hear it. See it. Absorb it—that idea of enduring because my daddy is good. 

Well, it's time to get grounded in God's Word. We've been grounded in God's Word already. But if you don't already have your Bible open, will you open it now and turn to Acts chapter 7, verses 54–60. I'm going to read them to us and then we'll unpack it a little bit. 

Now when they had heard these things they were enraged [they there is the religious leaders] and they ground their teeth at him. But he, full of the Holy Spirit gazed, into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. [Can you imagine it?] And he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” But they cried out with a loud voice and stopped their ears [Next to that I've written in my Bible, Lord, sin makes us like two-year-olds teach me maturity] and rushed together at him. Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him.

And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul. And they were stoning Stephen, and as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, received my spirit. [That should sound familiar. That's what Jesus said, from the cross.] And falling to his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them. [And that's another Jesus quote, Jesus said that as He was suffering.] And when he had said this, he fell asleep. 

I encourage you to read the whole account of Stephen’s life. It is two chapters—Acts chapter 6 and Acts chapter 7. You'll get an idea of what kind of man he was. Acts chapter 6, and over and over and over, Scripture tells us he was filled with the Holy Spirit. 

His story makes something crystal clear. And that is that there is a dark army, and that that dark army hates the light of Christ. They're not mildly annoyed by us, nor are they passive aggressive toward us. I say, often, I probably have said it here on Grounded, “Satan hates me. He hates my children; he hates my family; he hates my friends.” And that's okay. I hate him too. And he is vigilant in attacking the children of God. 

And these religious leaders, they were blinded to the deity of Christ. Jesus had been crucified. They had seen or certainly heard about all of that playing out. And they could not stand the light of Christ that lived inside of Stephen. Followers of Jesus, we are the light of the world. And darkness hates the light. 

So, we should be prepared because there really are at the end of the day, at the end of a life, at the end of an era, only two possible responses to Truth—Truth of the capital T, I'm talking about Jesus. First response is the one we've chosen, which is to bow ourselves in humility to who He is. But the second response is hatred. You either embrace and submit to truth, or you hate it. 

So, it shouldn't surprise us when those who do not know Christ react to our faith in Him with extreme danger, or extreme, extreme anger and danger. In fact, Jesus told us we should expect it. I want to zero in on verse 55 together. It's a beautiful, beautiful verse talking about Stephen. It says, 

But he [Stephen] full of the Holy Spirit gazed into heaven, and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 

If you know your Bibles, you know this is a big deal. Because when other people saw the glory of God, they fell flat on their faces and thought they were dead. That wasn't Stephen’s response. 

Again, Scripture tells us over and over that Stephen was a man filled with the Holy Spirit. He didn't just have the Holy Spirit because he'd given his life to Jesus. He was filled with it. And that was God working in Stephen; it was God working through Stephen. That's what emboldened Stephen to stand his ground. 

So, when you think about persecution, and maybe the possibility that persecution is going to come into your life, as Jesus warned it would, and you're worried it's about whether you can stand on your own; you don't have to fret. It wasn't Stephen standing up to the religious leaders. It was the Holy Spirit inside of Stephen that emboldened him to do that.

And you need to know that Stephen wasn't just a good man. He was a good man. In an earlier chapter we see him serving the church. But his accusers might have been “good” men. But that was not enough to save them. And that was enraging to them. 

So as Stephen is facing almost certain death, I'm sure he knew what was likely to happen. They dragged him out of the city, they had rocks in their hands. He turned his face toward the light, not the darkness. He looked to heaven, and he saw God's glory. 

He saw in some sort of very real sense the risen Savior. I think it's worth noting Jesus’ posture here. Other places in Scripture describe Jesus as sitting at the Father's right hand. He's seated at the Father's right hand. He's seated on the throne where he belongs. But here, did you notice what Jesus was doing? He wasn't sitting. He was standing. He was attentive. He was welcoming. He was about to receive Stephen to home forever. He had prepared a place for Stephen, just like he promised He would prepare a place for us. And He was getting ready to show Stephen that place. 

Maybe He was offering Stephen a standing ovation, because Scripture tells us it's precious in the sight of God when the saints die. So, Stephen fought back against the forces of darkness by keeping his focus on Jesus. I believe the darkness is getting darker. You feel it, don't you? I feel it. That's not me being prophetic. Jesus promised us that was going to happen. As the contractions of creation increase, we are awaiting our delivery from this broken world. 

Maybe you're asking this question, will I be persecuted? Well, then you have to ask the follow-up question. If I am, will I stand my ground? Or will I fold? Will I declare Jesus no matter what it costs? Or will I deny Him? 

Let me give you some hope. There's a pattern that I've noticed in the stories of martyrs. I'm sure Karen can back this up. I was reading one not long ago, it was in a secular news outlet talking about some of our Christian brothers and sisters who were beheaded in the Middle East. And it said, as those men and women faced their death, they looked to the sky and they said, “Jesus!” I don't know for sure, but I think there's enough evidence from the story of Stephen and the stories of our Christian brothers and sisters who have been slain, that as a Christian martyr is laying down their life, that Jesus is with them in a unique way. 

But if that is required of us, Jesus will give us the fortitude to surrender ourselves. And He will help us proclaim Him all the way until we step into glory. 

Here's what I think Stephen’s story shows us. I'm going to leave you with this thought. The sign that the light is winning is not the comfort of the saints. I'll say it again. The sign that the light is winning is not the comfort and cultural acceptance of us the saints. The sign that the light is winning is the growth of the kingdom of God. 

Did Stephen’s death stop the gospel from going forth? Well, you'll have to read the whole book of Acts to find out. But I can tell you that Jesus used that moment. People call Stephen the first Christian martyr. He wasn't, Jesus was the first Christian martyr. But God used that moment when Stephen laid down his life willing, praying for those who would murder him. He used it to push back the armies of darkness. And if you or I are called upon to lay down our lives, or lay down our freedoms, or lay down our comfort for Jesus, let's do it. Whatever the price is, it's worth paying. 

And let's trust that He's going to use it to push back the darkness and flood the world with light, which is his redemptive mission. It has been since the beginning of time. 

Portia: Amen, amen. Love it when you teach Erin Davis. Love it.

Erin: Come on. 

Portia: Well, after that, I think all that's left to do is for me to give you some tools to stay grounded. I want to recommend to you two blog posts from the Revive Our Hearts blog. The first one is titled “Endurance Is a Team Sport.” This is from Cindy Matson. It's talking about how to be a good teammate in the endurance race of following Jesus. We will drop a link for you to check that out. 

The second one is titled “For the One Who Is Weary.” I know I've been weary, and I encourage you to go and check this out. Like right now. This one is also written by Cindy Matson. And here's a little sneak peek of what you'll find when you read this. She says, “If you know Christ as your Savior, then you are united with Him. His righteousness is your righteousness. His resurrection is your resurrection. His endurance is your endurance, because He endured, you can endure too.” Doesn’t that sound like something you need to be reading right now? Yes. So we're gonna drop a link for you to check that one out as well.

Erin: We need to start a little amen count on the bottom of grounded episodes because I feel like it's like amen, amen, amen, amen. I agree with everything that's been said in case we haven't reminded you enough. Let us remind you one more time that this is the week True Woman ’22 is happening. If you are going to be in Indianapolis, please find Dannah and Portia and I and let us know that you're the Grounded Girls. We want to see you. We want to hug your neck. We want to pray with you. And if you haven't, that's okay, we don't want you to feel left out. You can absolutely still register for the livestream. 

When you do, you'll catch all the live sessions, and you'll get access to the audio of all the breakouts, including Karen Ellis. I'm so glad. I'm teaching, so I can't be in Karen's, but I do want to catch some of her passion, her vision, her kingdom mindedness for our brothers and sisters who are suffering. So, I'll be catching that later, listening to Karen then.

Portia: Yes, I'm super excited—super excited! And guess what else I'm excited about? Next week, we're gonna have our dear sister friend, Colleen Chao. She is a friend of Grounded. She's a friend of both Erin and me. We love her. Colleen was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and she's gonna be here to give us hope and perspective on suffering. So, I promise you are not going to want to miss it. I encourage you to wake up with hope with us together next week on Grounded once more.

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