Serving in Ministry with Courage and Clarity, with Amanda Kassian

When it comes to serving in women’s ministry, it can be scary to step out in faith and find the courage to lead others well. In this episode of Grounded, Amanda Kassian shares her journey of founding Seen Ministry, while seasoned women's ministry leaders Susan Hunt and Robyn McKelvy offer biblical advice on the highs and lows of ministry. 

Original Episode: 

Step Out of Fear and Into Your Calling, with Amanda Kassian

YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjuNEwfBAk0
Website: https://www.reviveourhearts.com/podcast/grounded/step-out-of-fear-into-your-calling-with-amanda-kas/

Connect with Amanda

Instagram: @amanda_kassian
Instagram: @seenministry
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/seenministry
Website: www.seenministry.com

Episode Notes

• Gospel Impact at Every Age, with Susan Hunt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FCsRzD_A4I
• Register for the Biblical Help for Real Life event series.
• Overcoming Lies Leaders Believe online training event.

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Amanda Kassian: There were two categories of fears that I was battling regarding the ministry. I had questions like: Is this even going to have an impact? And then I had personal fears regarding myself: Am I adequate? I had fears of provision. But I remember thinking that if I never said "yes," this wouldn't have happened. If you are stuck in your fears, you will not get the opportunity to see how God can work on the other side of your obedience.

Portia Collins: Women's ministry has been such a huge blessing in my life as both one who is led and one who leads. But let's face it, sometimes it can be hard, scary, and just flat out confusing. Many of us have struggled with stepping out in faith and finding the courage to lead other sisters. Well, if you felt that way, let me assure you that you are in a safe space, and this episode is just for you.

I'm Portia Collins back with another summer edition episode of Grounded. Today I get to share one of my most favorite episodes. Today is a clarion call for current women's ministry leaders, aspiring women's ministry leaders, retired women's ministry leaders. (Well, I'm not really sure if you can ever retire from ministry.) You get my point.

Pull up a seat and listen in as we hear from Amanda Kassian, who shares her journey of founding Seen Ministry. In her interview with Dannah, Amanda talks about the challenges she faced, the faith required, and the courage it takes to serve in ministry. Plus, we'll hear from three of my most favorite women in ministry: Susan Hunt, Robyn McKelvy, and our very own Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. Get ready to be encouraged and equipped for your own ministry. Here's Dannah and Amanda.

6:41 - Grounded with God's People (with Amanda Kassian) 

Dannah Gresh: Amanda Kassian is a wife and a mother living in Canada. I've actually sat under her Bible teaching. She is extremely gifted. She is one of the young up-and-coming leaders. At Revive Our Hearts have our eyes on her because she is that special. Amanda is the founder of a ministry called Seen. I want to just invite you to join Amanda and I in a conversation as we both talk about how God has called us to follow him to do something new in the kingdom. Welcome to Grounded Amanda.

Amanda: Thank you so much for having me. This is exciting.

Dannah: You're one of my favorite people. I'm so happy to have you, Amanda. To start with, I just have to ask you, your last name is familiar to a lot of our Grounded friends. Is that a coincidence?

Amanda: No. I am the daughter-in-law of Mary Kassian. So, I am very, very blessed to say the least.

Dannah: Yeah, we all love her. We love being mentored by her, but you have extra mentoring access. So Mary Kassian, if you don't know, is kind of like one of the mothers of the True Woman movement along with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth and others. She one of our speakers at True Woman ’22 in September. Amanda, I just want to talk a little bit about how you started a community ministry to disciple women, and how God called me to step out of my comfort zone to take True Girl international, because you know there can be a lot of fear and a lot of the same are roadblocks in callings, no matter what they are. So let's start with your ministry. What's the name of your ministry? And what do you do?

Amanda: So, I'm the founder and director of Seen ministry. It's a women's ministry, citywide ministry, that gathers to equip, encourage, and empower women to live for Jesus Christ. How this started was really what you guys have already talked about, which is starting in the small spaces. I've had a calling on my life to teach the Bible since my teens, and I've been leading Bible study groups since I was 17 years old. 

When I moved to Canada, that's a story for another time, but my husband is Canadian, and I'm from Texas. So I'm American through and through. But this country is very, very different in terms of access to good Bible teaching face to face. Coming from the Bible Belt, we don't have a lot of churches to choose from. 

I had a calling on my life when I first moved to Edmonton, which is where the city that I live in and where my ministry is, to lead Bible studies for single women. I did that for four-and-a-half years in my home. I just brought single women in their 20s and 30s, into my home, and really teaching the Bible, how to study the Bible, walking with these women side by side. It got to a point where I had 35 women in my home, and I couldn't fit anybody else. 

And so, I said, okay, you know what I'm going to, I'm going to ask the church if I can host a Bible study there, since we can have a little bit more space. Then it turned to 50 women. And my Bible studies kept growing. And so, I recognized that there was a need, there was a need for good, solid Bible teaching and equipping women in the Word. 

God laid it on my heart to start a women's ministry which is similar to a True Woman conference. It started out as a quarterly gathering. We met in the evenings, and we had solid study of Scripture. Women got to interact from with other women from all over the city, get out of their bubbles a little bit. And it turned into a very beautiful ministry where you could sit across the table from somebody who is in a different economic class than you who maybe had a bad relationship with the church and needed a bridge to get back in.

Dannah: What you're saying is so important. I want to just pause and say, you started faithfully with a small group. Many times when women come to me and say, “I want to start a ministry,” they want to go straight to the top. They want to publish a book, start a website, launch a national event. I see the ministries that are fruitful starting the way that you did . . . come into my home. Let me mentor you. Let me love you. Let me disciple you. And then you were faithful with that. So God said, “Let me fill your house so full I'm going to take you to your church.” And then you were faithful with that. And so God said, “I'm going to fill your church so full, I'm going to make you a community leader.” That's that's how True Girl my ministry started. It was with one girl and a little, little cabin. Erin Davis happened to be one of the teenagers in that first retreat I ever did for my little church. 

So, what you're saying is really important. If you feel a call on your life, start with whomever God has placed in your life right here and right now. Amanda, when you began to move to the church, and then to the community, are there any fears that you experienced? I think a lot of women experience fear when they step out.

Amanda: To say that I don't struggle with these things would a lie, even still to this day. Because even after the hurdle of COVID and revamping our ministry . . . You know, Canada's very, very different in terms of what has happened with COVID. The restrictions go along with that. I'd say there were two categories of fears that I was battling. 

I recently went through my prayer journal just to go through and see what were some of the things that I was struggling with at the time. I had fears regarding the ministry, and then I had personal fears regarding myself. And so, regarding the ministry, I had questions like, is this even going to have an impact? Is this even going to do anything? I'm going to put in all this work, is it going to do anything? I had fears of provision. My husband and I stepped out faithfully to put in our own money to have a have a venue to invite people in. We forked up thousands of dollars, and it's like, Is God going to show up? Are people going to buy tickets? Are we gonna get that money back? We said, either way that we're stepping out in faith regardless. 

Then I had my own personal fears of am I adequate? Sometimes you see these women who are leading these ministries, even you guys. I'll look at you. I'm like, “Man, am I good enough for this? Like, can I do this?”

Dannah: We have that fear too.

Amanda: We put people on this pedestal. But truly, they're human. We all have our own fears. I think that was the biggest one. And the second one was, I just don't want to operate out of my flesh. I don't want to do this with selfish ambition. I still struggle with that almost to a fault. I don't show my face a lot, even on my own ministry page. I know myself. I know my own sin. I know how I desire approval in a lot of ways. I wanted to flush that out and really spend some time in prayer with God, “Is this of You or is this of me?mI don't want to step out unless I know.”

Dannah: Well, how did you take it to the Word? How did you overcome that fear? Speak specifically to that woman who's sitting there just loaded down in that fear because God's called her to start a Bible study in her home, or a community ministry in her town, or blog, or podcast. Speak to that fear with the Word of God, Amanda.

Amanda: You know, there are three passages of Scripture that really ministered to me in that time. The first one that just kept popping up over and over and over again was Matthew 14, when Peter steps out of the boat. When he starts looking at the waves, he sees Jesus on the water. And he's like, “I want to go out to you.” He's looking from side to side, and he's seeing the storm, the waves, the wind, all the things that could possibly go wrong, all of the fears and anxiety that could overwhelm him. And he begins to sink in Jesus Then Peter cries out and he says, “Lord save me.” And immediately, Jesus puts out His hand, and he pulls him up. And He says, Oh, you have little faith? Why did you doubt?” Then he walks on water, because he's keeping his eyes on Christ. 

And I think, when we start to look from side to side, or when we look at all the things or all the fears and anxiety, we don't get to see what's on the other side of our “yes.” I just want to encourage women that if you are stuck in your fears, you will not get the opportunity to see how God can work on the other side of your obedience. 

Dannah: That’s right.

Amanda: I remember seeing at our last Seen gathering all of these women gathered, because we packed out every venue. God did more than I could have ever anticipated. But I remember thinking at that time, If I never said “yes,” this wouldn't have happened. That's not because of me. But that was because of Christ working in me to help me in that process.

Dannah: By holding your hand pulling you above those waves. That picture of Peter in the water has actually been the exact verse that the Lord has turned me to when True Girl went international. We had a call to start to branch out into the Dominican Republic in Latin America. And you know what my fear was was time? I don't have any more time. I do have a finite amount of time, a finite amount of me. I think a lot of people in ministry have that fear. 

But as I stepped out, the Lord took my hand and lifted me above that. I gotta tell you, that was, I don't know, seven, eight years ago. This year our Spanish outreach, our online Spanish Bible study students exceeded our English-speaking Bible study students through our ministry. 

So, He will lift you above those waves. He is the God of the wind and the sea. He's the God of your time. He's the God of your talents. He's the God of your money. He's the God of your emotions. Those are where some of the waves come from. 

Tell us a story of the fruit you've seen through the ministry—one short little snippet of how one woman's life was changed by you obeying God's calling.

Amanda: So the way Seen works is we have an annual conference, and we have like a six- or nine-week Bible study where women can actually engage with the Word and do it on a more consistent basis versus like one day or an evening. And this last Bible study that we had, I had a 65-year-old woman come to me. That's another fear that I had, that I was too young, like, nobody's gonna listen to me, and nobody wants to hear from me. 

And so, I had a 65-year-old woman come up to me and say, “I have never heard the gospel, taught like that in my entire life. We talked for a good 15 minutes, and she just shared a little bit about what she's been going through in her life, that she's been in church her entire life, and she's never heard or understood the gospel in this way, ever. And so that was just really sweet of God just to affirm me in that way. But also, just to see how he's changing lives and bringing women back to the church, too. 

Dannah: That’s beautiful.

Amanda: Yeah.

Dannah: I love it. Amanda, I want to be taught by you. I want to hear what you have to say. And I have; you're a great teacher. That's why we've chosen you to be a breakout speaker and minister at True Woman ’22. You're going to be providing a workshop. What are you going to be speaking on at True Woman?

Amanda: I'm gonna be talking about my number one passion, actually. I'm going to be speaking on hospitality. The breakout session is called “Open Door Open Home: The Gospel and Hospitality.” For me, that's where it all started. My own ministry was just opening my door to women and to people in need. That is my deepest passion. It's kind of interesting because it's so natural to me. I don't know what I'm going to teach on exactly, but it'll come.

Dannah: The Lord will lead you. Well, keep up the good work there in Canada. We love you. We can't wait to see you in September in Indianapolis. Thanks, Amanda. 

Amanda: Thanks for having me. 

Dannah: Amanda is not the only one doing a breakout workshop in at True Woman. We want to provide something for everyone. We have over 28 to choose one from. Erin Davis will be offering one, my True Girl team and I will be providing a workshop on how to talk to your daughter about gender. The beloved Susan Hunt and Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth are partnering. Wow, that's a Power Team. Really, there's something for everyone. Check out the list of breakout sessions and learn more about True Woman ’22 at TrueWoman22.com. Now it's time for us to get grounded in God's Word. Portia, girl, take it away.

21:40 -  Grounded in God's Word (with Portia)

Portia: Well, look, I'm gonna tell you this. If I can sneak away from the Monthly Partner booth for a little while, I plan to be in Amanda’s session. I'm super excited.

Imagine that you set out to launch a new ministry endeavor. You open your inbox to find an email from Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. You know, she knows a thing or two about ministry. You know she's the founder and the lead Bible teacher here at Revive Our Hearts. This is a ministry that has been helping women to flourish in Christ for more than 20 years. 

Well, she has sent a special email to many of us and even had the conversation. I remember the last time I got a chance to sit down with her. She's really just shared this message with a desire for those of us with a desire to write and to serve in public ministry. She has some words for us. And we know it seems that women like us were in no short supply. Okay, we all feel burdened and called to do something.

But here's the thing. I want to ask you this. Do you have a desire to write for the kingdom or maybe publish a book or a podcast or maybe even make something as simple as an Instagram post? Perhaps you want to start a ministry like Seen or do something to equip fellow sisters in Christ? Well, this is what I want you to know, I want you to lean in. I want you to listen to this advice, not for me but from Nancy. I think she shares, and it's hard to come by anywhere else. We wanted you to hear that wisdom directly from her today. 

Now, before I go into this letter, I do want to share some Scripture to help frame where we're headed here. If you have your Bibles, I want you to turn with me to Matthew 28. And we're going to look at verses 18 through 20. It says, 

Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Listen to what that says, make disciples, and teach Jesus's Word. That's the assignment that has been given to all believers in Christ. But here's the thing: to teach God's Word you've got to know it. You have got to live it. It has to be like the air that you breathe. Everything is predicated on the truth of God's Word. 

And so, I want to take a minute to read this letter from Nancy. I hope that you feel like it has been written directly to you. She says: 

I love watching Him raise up women like you to communicate His heart. As you pursue maximum fruitfulness and ministry through writing, I would suggest that the single greatest thing you or anyone can do to ensure long-term effectiveness is systematic, serious study of Scripture, becoming increasingly doctrinally and biblically grounded. There are a lot of gifted writers in the world today. Some of them have large audiences. But I long to see more writers and speakers develop whose communication is biblically rich, lucid, and sound.

There are no shortcuts to develop that kind of depth. It requires an intentional, ongoing, time-consuming, lifetime devotion to Bible study, meditation. I'm convinced that the more time and effort younger writers and speakers devote to the study of His Word, then they will have more to say in the long term that will be worth hearing or reading. Because ultimately, it is not beautiful or touching writing that transforms people's lives. But the Word, the Spirit of God communicated through, hopefully, beautiful writing and speaking.

I'll go so far to say that if a woman has to choose due to time constraints or wanting to maintain biblical priorities in her 20s 30s, and even 40s, she has to choose between writing and speaking, learning to write and speak, developing her craft and studying the Word; I encourage her to do whatever it takes to become a woman of the Word. Knowing that down the road as she becomes an older woman, her life will be so full and rich that quality substance and ministry will overflow in a variety of forms and applications.

At the end of the day, I don't want women to just love my messages, books, or to be deeply touched by them, though that is nice. I want them to become women of the Word, to be challenged, to think and live biblically, to love truth, to be able to discern between truth and error, especially when it is cloaked as truth and appears to be even more lovely than true. Anything less than that is less than what our readers or hears need and truly long for. I know you want the same as you communicate. From an older sister who wants to see you have the greatest possible impact for His kingdom through the whole course of your lives, Nancy.

Dannah: Wow, that's precious—precious, good words. Good words from our friend Nancy. It doesn't matter what ministry God's calling you to, dig into the Word. You know, there are so many women I admire for their approach to ministry, but I cannot how much respect I have for one specifically. And Nancy is one of them on this shortlist of especially wonderful women. But high on that short list is Susan Hunt. She has been serving the Lord in the local church for decades. She says no matter what your age or season, you are called to serve. Here's Susan.

29:13 -  Video (Gospel Impact at Every Age, with Susan Hunt)

Susan Hunt: Whatever your age, grow up, and step up. Share the gospel and your life with another woman and be a part of extending God's kingdom. I began to think, Lord, how do I live under the authority of Your Word and obey? And how do I glorify and obey? I can do so little. 

But as I dug down into Scripture, it’s just where discipleship begins. It is unstoppable. It will not be confined to assigned groups. It becomes a way of life. It changes the culture of a church. It makes church feel more like family. 

So how does it feel to be an old lady? It feels like a tired, happy, little girl being carried in the arms of her Father. And she's calling to her friends, “Look how good and strong my Daddy is.” And she knows that when she falls asleep in His arms, she'll wake up at home.

Robyn McKelvy: Wow. Susan Hunt is also on my shortlist Dannah, so I love that woman . . . and I don't even know if she remembers me. But there's a love in my heart for her that will be here until the day I die. 

You guys, I'm so excited to share with you about ministry because my husband and I have been a part of ministry for 34 years together. 

And from day one, ministry has been difficult, but rewarding. And so, we want to share with you some things that you may need to know if there's a passion on your heart to start a ministry. We have to first decide number one, what's the purpose? Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9:23. “I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.”

So, when you think about doing the ministry, are you doing it for the sake of the gospel? Because that should be our heartbeat. And then number two, I want you to know there's a time and a season for everything. Ecclesiastes 3:1 says, “There's a time and a season for every activity under the heavens.” So is this a ministry that may fit with what is going on in your life, but this time in season. Sometimes the things that burden us, we need to sit on for a little while until the Lord opens the door and the Word makes it clear to those in our life. What does your husband say about this ministry, if you're married. If you're not married and you're single, what do the people around you say? Do you have margin to do this ministry? 

And then number three, what's your passion? What keeps you up at night? And if this is something that keeps you up at night can you get started in your home? You see my living room right behind me there have been so many things that have been started right here, because you can start any ministry with one or two. A lot of us call it mentoring. But all we're doing is sharing with another person some of the things that the Lord has taught us. That's how ministry begins. So, what's your passion? 

And then number four, can this ministry be a ministry that spawns out of your local church or your local fellowship? A lot of world-changing ministries that flow start with the gifts that are in the body that you're a part of. Is your ministry one of those things? 

And then five, are you ready for the battle? Because, ladies, there's going to be some tough battles that you must endure and overcome. And all of this that I just shared is a part of the book of Nehemiah. 

He had a burden for Jerusalem, the walls were broken down. And so even with us, we’ve started three church plants now. We have a desire to see multiple cultures of men and women serving together in one local fellowship. And so, if you don't think that made the enemy mad, oh, he was mad. 

It taught us how to pray differently. What Nehemiah first thing was praise and call it out to the Lord. And then you have to have some persistence. Are you ready for the fight? Cuz the fight is real. Can you persist through the discouragement and the tearing down of others? Nehemiah had three people that kept coming at him. He had Sanballat, Tobiah the Ammonite, and Gershon the Arab. They just kept coming at him, kept picking that hill. But Nehemiah did not break down. Are you ready to be persistent? Because sometimes that's what it takes? No. All the time. That's what it takes when we begin these ministries, because it's at war with the enemy. 

And then, who are the people on your team? Who's on your team? who's serving with you? Who can you look at around the areas of your life and say, “This is somebody I know who will pray with me as I begin this ministry.” 

And then finally, guys, we need to be able to answer these questions. And I know I throw them out real fast, I spit them out too fast. So go back and rewind so you can answer each question before you begin a ministry. Because starting a ministry it may seem glorious. But ministry is not easy. I need you to hear me say that. Ministry is hard work, because ministry is warfare.

Portia: You know, Robyn, first of all, I wish that I had somebody like you almost six years ago when I started my ministry. I'm gonna be honest. I was just a young, zealous, loved the Lord, ready to do something. But honestly, if I'm honest, I needed somebody to walk alongside me and help me to grow me in this, because it is hard work. I didn't know what I was getting myself into. Praise be to God that He has used this in such a magnificent way. 

Robyn: Amen. 

Portia: But I think the counsel that you shared and what Nancy has shared is so helpful. I pray that the women who are listening are really taking in this advice, in this wisdom, as they contemplate on what it is that God is calling them to do. So, thank you so much. I appreciate you. I'm taking it all in, taking heed to everything you just said.

Robyn: Amen. Well, praise be to the Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Portia: Listen, can I just say that I love seeing the sweet faces of Susan and Robyn. As many of you know, Robyn is still recovering after suffering a stroke last year. And while ministry looks a lot different for her nowadays, you can bet that she is still just as passionate and faithful as ever. Let's continue to keep her lifted in prayer. We love you so much, Robyn.

This episode is almost a wrap. But I cannot let you get out of here without giving you the good stuff. That's right. If you lead a women's Bible study, if you're a pastor's wife, or if you're a women's ministry leader, however you serve or minister to women, we at Revive Our Hearts have something special for you.

Be set free to serve with courage and clarity when you identify and overcome lies that can cause leaders to be ineffective. We're offering this through an upcoming training event that is specifically for leaders. Overcoming Lies Leaders Believe is an online event for anyone who leads other women. So, you want to run, not walk, to reserve your virtual seat today. We're going to drop a link in the Episode Notes, as well as a chat. It's gonna be great.

Oh, and by the way, guess what? True Woman 2025 registration has not opened yet . . . ut it's coming. Okay, it's coming. In the meantime, make sure you're signed up to get our emails and notifications right from Revive Our Hearts so you won't miss a thing.

I cannot wait for you to get back here next week. Our social media team, our fabulous social media team is sharing one of their favorite episodes. And listen, I got a little sneak peek. It is a good one. You don't want to miss it! Let's wake up with hope together next week on Grounded.

Grounded is a listener-supported production of Revive Our Hearts, calling women to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ.

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