The Power of Singing in the Dark, with Bethany Barnard

When you're in the dark valley of depression, is it possible to keep singing? Hear from Christian singer and songwriter Bethany Barnard about her journey of trusting God through the grief in this hope-filled episode.

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Episode Notes

“Chi Alpha Chaplain Leads Dozens of Frat Members to Christ” good news story

“Depression on My Doorstep” blog post by Colleen Chao

“Truth to Counter Depression, with Drs. David and Shona Murray” podcast series

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Erin Davis: I want you to imagine something. Try picturing yourself sitting at the side of your dad's bed and watching him die a painful death. And then imagine in that moment, having the urge to sing. I'm Erin Davis.

Dannah Gresh: Wow, Erin, I can't wait to hear how that story goes. I'm Dannah Gresh. You're watching a live videocast from Revive Our Hearts, if you're joining us on Monday. But if it's after that, you're probably joining us by podcast.

Portia Collins: Yes, and I am Portia Collins. Here is why this episode matters for your life. We all face dark seasons, whether you are Christian or not. Sometimes the dark clouds just won't give way, and you end up in fierce battles with depression. Don't I know it, okay? And that's when the questions hit. 

What can we do during those moments when it's hard to pray, or when we are trying to write in our journals and it feels impossible, or even when we're struggling to sing the hymns that we know to be true? Well, the answer might surprise you. If you're weary-hearted, this episode is just for you.

Dannah: Of course it's also for those who are not struggling with depression, but if you know and love someone who is and if that's you, stick around, because I'm going to share some really encouraging insight from God's Word about how to love someone when they're battling with depression.

Erin: Dannah, I think that statement means that this episode is for everybody. Because whether you know it or not, you do know somebody who is battling depression now or has that cycle in their life. And our guest today is a well-known Christian music artist Bethany Barnard, you might remember her as Bethany Dillon. I've been listening to some of those older songs this morning. 

She does not claim to have all of the answers for your emotions, and I appreciate that about her. But she does have some songs that she wrote in her own long season of deep grief and depression. I would call these songs raw; I would call them vulnerable. I would call them poignant as they remind us where our source of hope really is, when we are in that valley of the shadow of death, which I always define as the place where we say, “God, if I have to stay here one more minute, I'm gonna die.” We've probably been in those places. 

She's gonna give us hope and perspective, and show us where we can turn when we find ourselves in that valley.

Dannah: I cannot wait. I'm very excited. We've been waiting for a really long time to get Bethany on Grounded. But before we welcome her, we do need to hear some good news. So, take it away, Portia.

Good New: Sharing the Gospel in Frat Houses (13:05)

Portia: Will do. Okay, guys, so imagine that you are driving by a frat house, a fraternity house. I may be stereotyping a little bit here, so give me a little grace. But I can picture maybe some beer cans in the yard. You know, maybe some guys played a rough game of football nearby. Think about this, how many of you would take a moment to knock on that frat house door and ask if you could clean the toilet? 

Well, my husband works for a university, and I actually worked for a university for many years, and we love college students. But I'm gonna be very honest here, I aint signing up to clean the bathrooms at a fraternity house anytime soon. Okay! But John Conkel did just that. 

John is a campus pastor at the University of Minnesota. And he opened a coffee house to try to reach college students for Jesus. But one day, he walked by that frat house, okay by frat row, and God put a fresh burden on his heart. John wondered, Who is trying to reach the frat guys for Jesus? So, he grabbed some cleaning supplies. And he started knocking on doors, offering to clean toilets. And listen to this. Any of us who have lived with one man, just one, poor Erin, she's got how many in her house? You know what John was volunteering to do here? Okay. 

These houses were full of men, and there's no telling what was going on in there. But the idea evolved. John recruited a Christian student at the University, and they spent a summer cleaning frat houses for free. Then he started calling the members of the fraternities and asking if he could be their chaplain. 

One phone call connected him with a fraternity president who did not know Jesus. But he told John, he had a new desire to study the Bible. And John became the fraternity’s chaplain. That was 15 years ago. He has now become the chaplain for many of the fraternities on that campus. 

And here's how a good story news connects to our topic today. John said this, “Every year, I'm permitted to attend the frat council meeting and pitch to all the friends the idea of having a chaplain. What I found is that after I make that pitch, especially the last three years, students have started to contact me as they are dealing with things like anxiety, depression, addictions, suicidal thoughts, alcohol, and underneath it all is a hunger for Jesus” 

Amen, John. While there may be legitimate medical and circumstantial reasons for depression, sometimes the root is a spiritual need. And on a college campus, there is a lot of spiritual need. Depression is just one door through which students will invite someone in for spiritual advice, and do college-aged adults need that type of help right now? Absolutely. 

Many have really been struggling through the pandemic. In fact, researchers say that the rise in depression among college students is up as much as 90%. And so, John has moved toward the emotional need. He is seeing more and more college-aged men coming to Jesus. Two years ago, John led, 16 frat members to Jesus. And in 2021, he led 20 men to the Lord and this year, he's already seen 38 young men make commitments to the Lord in just in the first semester. 

Remember, we haven't finished the school year yet. And so, he says he sees it like planting indigenous churches, right in the heart of a large university. 

You know, it's really easy to focus on the headlines about anxiety and depression. Many of us are still reeling from some of the news that just happened yesterday. And you know, it can make those of us who suffer from it or who loves someone who does, it can make us feel a little bit hopeless seeing all this negativity. But God is at work, and He is using one man committed to cleaning toilets and sharing about Jesus. And guess what my friends? That's some good news. 

Erin: Good news P, I love that good news story. I live next to a college down, and I'm friends with the college ministers, and they are making a difference. So we celebrate what God's doing on college campuses. But I have to affirm that cleaning frat house toilets was a big act of service. 

Portia: Bless him. 

Erin: Bless him. Five boys in my house, I know a little bit about what he was signing up to do. Thanks, Portia.

Grounded Concerning the Issue of Depression, with Bethan Bernard (18:38)

Well, Bethany Bernard is with us this morning. As we said, she's a Christian recording artist. a songwriter. You might know her as Bethany Dillon. She spent the early 2000s (which were really formative spiritual years for me), recording music and touring, releasing hits, like: “All I Need” and “Beautiful.” If you're like me, your brain just went right back to some good memories, as you heard those titles. They were in the top of the Christian music charts. 

But in 2020, God began giving Bethany a new song and that is the song of clinging to Jesus, in the midst of grief. Bethany is a mom of four daughters and the wife of Shane Barnard. You might know him as one half of Shane and Shane. Welcome to Grounded, Bethany.

Bethany Bernard: Good morning, thank you for having me.

Erin: We really are excited. I want to jump right in. Tell us about your 2020. I know we all have stories of 2020. But yours seems especially hard and complex, what was going on in your life in 2020?

Bethany: Yeah, my dad was in the middle of a battle with cancer for the second time. And right as the pandemic hit, he reached the end of treatment options. And so, it was Easter of 2020 that he was put on hospice, and then in May passed away. And so that was a long, pretty brutal season of just kind of the long goodbye, and grieving myself, but also being present for everyone else's grief.

Erin: So hard. You describe that season, and you talk about being unable to pray, which actually I find so refreshing because even though I've loved Jesus for more than 20 years, I've experienced that, especially in those grief valleys. I assume most of the women who will watch this or listen to this have experienced that too. 

What was it like for you to have that kind of spiritual pipeline feel blocked where you needed to cry out to Jesus, but that was a real struggle? What was that like?

Bethany: What it was like, is terrifying. But I think the more that I learn about even just our brains and the trauma of big losses, like that, like someone passing away, in my brain even there's shock going on and trauma. The day that feels like a year of medicine and hospice nurses showing up, and my mom weeping, and someone having to make dinner and feed the dog. 

So, I think on the other side of that, it's like, I look back and can give myself grace. I have better vision for the grace of God that was extended to me in that season. But also honestly, there was that part of me that's like the trauma shock, going through grief that you just kind of staring. Anybody who's been in that place knows that it's foggy and you're just like, I've just been staring, or I'm walking from room to room. 

But additionally, there was a lot of anger towards just cancer in general that this was happening, and believing what I believe and reading what I have in the Bible. It was like, well, this hasn't surprised God; God didn't say no to this. We’re crying out to Him to produce a different outcome than what is happening and kind of felt like even my relationship with my husband or dear friends, like where you're where your guards are really down, and you can be yourself, you're just like, “I am so mad. I don't even know what to say. If I start to talk, it's probably going to be damaging.” 

I think in those places, you feel so desperate. You feel the freefall; you feel the unraveling of who you thought you would be in that moment? Or what you've thought God would feel like in that moment. There's just all of this dust storm going on. It feels really disorienting to say the least. I’m having the longest quiet times I've ever had in my life, and shouldn't I be feeling and experiencing these different things that you hope for in those moments. God is present. God is doing things. The inability to really pray, or in addition to that, to create a full sentence and actually communicate with most people, it's just kind of gone for a while.

Erin: Yeah. I can so relate to that. I've talked several times here on Grounded about the fact that we're well into the battle with Alzheimer's of my mom, and I am so angry a lot. I'm so angry at Alzheimer's. I'm so angry at what's happening in her brain. At times I’m so angry at her because she's so frustrating. At times I am really frustrated with God, because it's complex. We don't need to talk about all of it. But I don't know why my mom of all people would have this disease. 

So, I can so relate. I want to press in there for a minute because that grief eventually turned into an album, All My Questions. I want to read some lyrics, which I think are so powerful, the choruses. 

“Who else am I supposed to be angry at? Who else?
Who else am I supposed to be angry at?
You're the one that calls the shots.” 

So, I imagine that's directed at God. What did you feel? What did you feel like? Does it feel okay to be angry at God? That feels scary to be angry at God. What were some of the layers behind those words?

Bethany: Yes, to all the questions. It was after dad had passed away. And just in the process of grieving him and grieving the reality that was left. I was saying it's kind of like, if I am going to talk to God, if it's Your will, yeah, I'm on it. You know, it's just like, this does not make sense. 

I think a grace was, in many ways, having the husband that I do who loves me well. We've been married for almost 14 years. But, you know, having done the relationship of marriage for however many years at that point, and knowing what conflict produces and what hard conversations create. It's not. It's not distance. It's not you're going in to win or you're going in to wound. You're going in because there's brokenness, and there's things to talk about, and you want to be heard. 

And at the end of it, like we all know, whether we're married or not. If you are living life with somebody walking with somebody in true community, especially as believers, it's like, yeah, the other side of that actually produces so much fruit.

Erin: Yeah.

Bethany: It produces intimacy and that's within human relationships. I think looking at the Word, looking at conversations that people had with God in the middle of suffering, like Job, or like the prophets, even the disciples as they were hashing out and wrestling with things that Jesus was telling them plainly, that didn't make sense to them. 

And the word permission. It felt like I'm welcomed into that. I don't want to have a fake relationship with God. For my own sake, for the sake of my kids, and for the sake of my neighbors who don't know, Jesus, I don't want to be roommates with my husband, for myself or for anybody else who's watching, because that's actually not what this relationship was created for. 

And so that song, it was a process of am I allowed to be angry? Am I allowed to ask God questions that I kind of know the book answer for, but I feel like there's not really an answer for and there may never be? 

I don't want a fake relationship with God. And so being really brutally honest and waiting for an answer that may not come, I want to enter into that place of relationship, because I feel like He's made that available to Jesus.

Erin: I love that parallel. You're so right. I mean, husband, wife, friend, a friend, parent, child where you really can enter conflict together and disagree and come out the other side with a tighter bond. I love the thought of us having the freedom to do that with the Lord as well. 

During the season, you were diagnosed with OCD, and you experienced clinical depression. I gotta wonder, was there any shame in that for you, as you hear we're supposed to be these people of joy and peace, that I have these things in my brain in my body that I need help with? What did that all feel like to hear those diagnoses?

Bethany: Yeah, I hated it. It was horrible. 

Erin: Yeah. 

Bethany: I felt it was like relieving in a way to have a name for OCD, specifically. I was like, okay, maybe I've had that, it didn't surprise me. 

But yes, so much shame. I didn't tell my kids, obviously, the optics of our life. They knew that I wasn't doing great. I wasn't like, with pearls and high heels, having like an awesome house. But yeah, I felt that as an indictment on my relationship with God, my ability to do hard things. 

And so, it really was just by the grace of God, and people that He brought, like the therapist that He brought into my life, just helping give me more of a worldview of it makes sense what we got here. And that this is not outside of the work of God in your life. This is the story He wrote. I feel so free. Because clinically this has just been such a provision, something that God has given me. And I'm grateful for it. 

And then also, it's like, man I can share openly, because it's not my identity. It's something that opens the door with other people and it gives permission for things that they're struggling with to share. 

Erin: I love that if there's one woman listening that she has a diagnosis or she knows she needs a diagnosis or she's taking medicine or she's in therapy, and she's been wrapped in shame and she could be free from that, then this time would be well spent. 

I am now on medication for my blood pressure which is great. But I'm so mad. I just told my husband last night, I am so mad every time I have to take these things because to me, it's like, should I not have inner peace that transcends this physical thing in my body. But it's because I'm so broken that I need Jesus so much. So, we want to definitely give some permission slips this morning to need grace. 

Well, it's 2022, even though 2020 feels not that far away, have you seen any of that sadness, depression, grief, blossom into something beautiful yet? Are those seeds still in the ground?

Bethany: Yes. I mean, I would say there's freedom that God has given me that I'm so thankful for and I'm not responsible for. I've seen God redeem those moments where I'm like, “Are you serious?” Like you were talking about, like, if I stay in this spot, I'm not going to be okay, things are not going to be okay. And I see His hand in it now. 

And then, be transparent. I dealt with depression again this last fall. And I would say maybe like a month or two ago. I've been going through another bout of depression, and that kind of explains all of these things where I was kind of like, “What's going on?” 

And so maybe it’s a lifelong struggle for me. 

Erin: Yeah. 

Bethany: I don't want to have some homework to do. But it seems like that is that's something that God's allowing to be a part of my story still. I'm thankful that the way to shame isn't there like it was. I'm thankful for help. And I'm thankful for who He is in the struggle. It’s not the way that it used to be, but it may continue to be a struggle for me, and I don't love that. 

Erin: I can so relate. But about what you're doing this morning, it's such a biblical thing. I mean, Paul told us, you're gonna brag about something, brag about your weakness, because it points to God's greatness. So, I think you've done that so beautifully. Bethany, before we say goodbye to you, would you pray for the one woman or the 100,000 women I don't know how many there are, who are going to hear this. They're where you were in 2020. They're in the dark valley, they feel kind of spiritually stopped up and are very, very angry at the Lord. Would you just pray for them this morning?

Bethany: I’d love to. Father, I pray for my sisters who feel so ganged up on or forgotten or like failures. And who do feel stuck in whatever pit that they're in. And now, I just think about how You saw me in those moments, and it didn't instantly lift. But I can look back and see how I cried out, like David said in Psalm 34, “This poor man cried, and the Lord heard me and delivered me.” So, we just ask collectively knowing it's Your character that You would incline Your ear. 

I pray for the heart that doesn't feel seen. I just pray that in whatever way in a small detail’s way today, or in a big way, that she would feel seen by You, cared for by You, carried by You today. I pray that You would open doors of help or next steps. I pray that You'd bring to mind somebody that she can open up to and share with and ask to be linking arms with someone who would burden bear with her. 

And we just, we just pray that in suffering in the things that we don't want, that we feel that You have said yes to, or you've said no to . . . We just pray that You would give us eyes to see who You are and how You love us and how You're with us. That You would glorify Yourself and that You would comfort us through Your Holy Spirit, that He would counsel that heart and comfort that heart and bring to remembrance who Jesus is to that heart. 

Let me just pray for endurance. If the answer doesn't come today, just the mystery in the power of Your grace, to just grant intelligence, Lord. We trust that You will. Some things don't make sense, but we just trust you. We ask that You'd help us trust you more. Thank You for loving us. Thank You for the invitation to know you. We ask these things in the name of Jesus, who came to show us what You are like, amen.

Erin: Amen. What a beautiful prayer. Hey, if you are somebody who right now needs a soundtrack for your sadness, that's going to point you to true hope. I want to commend Bethany's album to you. It's called All My Questions, Bethany, where do they find it?

Bethany: iTunes, Spotify, I think all the places.

Erin: Wherever you get your music, not probably not on CD anymore. So find some digital downloads of that music and I really do recommend it. Thanks for being with us. Bethany, you've been a delight.

Bethany: Thank you for having me.

Erin: Portia.

Portia: What word, a beautiful prayer, and a wonderful interview. There's so much that she touched on, shame in while having depression. But I think conversations like this and having an openness to share and to still understand that having depression and having trust in God that the two are not mutually exclusive. 

Erin: Yeah, so good. 

Portia: So, it's really good. It reminds me, I want to read this quote, really quickly. One of my favorite theologians struggled to live with depression, Charles Spurgeon. One thing that he says, “I find myself frequently depressed, perhaps more so than any other person here,” who would have thought Charles Spurgeon guys. He says, “I find no better cure for that depression than to trust in the Lord with all my heart, and seek to realize a fresh the power of the peace, speaking blood of Jesus, and His infinite love and dying up on the cross, to put away all my transgressions.” Amen. So, Amen.

Now, we don't want to give the impression that everyone is depressed all the time. You may not be in a valley right now, praise God for that. But darker days may come. And so, we want you to check out this short clip of one of our favorite Grounded guests, my friend Colleen Chao. Colleen has terminal cancer. But she says it was studying God's Word on the good days that prepared her to suffer. Let’s watch.

Video: Colleen Chao: Preparing for Suffering

Colleen Chao: It seems like for all of us, right? I'm sure both of you would agree. It's the years and years and weeks and days and months that lead up to different kinds of suffering, big or small, that prepare us to have joy in Jesus and to experience the supernatural moments of laughter and cancer. And it's rooting myself in the Word. I started reading the Word. The Lord caught my heart on fire for His Word when I was 11. And honestly, there have been very few days that I've not been in the Word in one way or another. And I'm 45 now, and it's just such a sweet thing. You don't have to start when you're 11. But I just I see the richness and the depth and the power of the Word in my life and not just to have head knowledge, but to meet Jesus in His Word, and to experience His presence, and experience His truth that works day in day out. It's real, and it's powerful, and it's alive and active. I just see so much of that is the daily steeping in experience of the presence of God through His Word.

Grounded in God’s Word: Philippians 2:4–11 and Charles Spurgeon (34:38)

Dannah: Amen. I'm so grateful for that woman, Colleen. She's become a dear friend, as I watch her fight that cancer battle and that battle with her mind and her mood. 

You know, I live with a husband who fiercely battled depression, but Bob Gresh is one of the bravest people I know. Just like Colleen and just like Bethany. Every day he wakes up and he is faithful, whether he feels it or not. And Bob and I both kind of wish Christians talked about it more openly, kind of like how we've talked about it here today. Or maybe even that the medical community could reframe the language a little bit. Because of that stigma and shame that we've been talking about. You see, if you're struggling or if someone you love is struggling, you should not be buried in shame. 

Like Bethany mentioned, since the time of Job, humanity has been suffering from depression. And the Bible says the Job was blameless and upright. You know, David also seemed to have an ongoing battle with depression, but he was called a man after God's own heart. 

Listen to me, clearly, depression is not a disqualifier, and it doesn't get the final say in our lives. As Colleen just said, God's Word does. 

And it's time for us to go ahead and get grounded in God's Word. Now, I should warn you, the passage I'm taking you to today helped one of Christianity's most beloved figures to survive depression. Portia just mentioned them. His name is Charles Spurgeon. But this passage is not one of those comforting passes of Scripture, not the kind that we usually turn to on dark days. Let me just tell you how it came to be a bastion of hope for Charles. You see, he taught it on the verge of depression for most of his teen years. And when he was 22 years old, and a pastor of a large church, he felt overwhelmed by life. 

Now, I have to say, I can appreciate one thing that was overwhelming, because he and his wife did have twin babies to care for. And as a grandmother watching my son and daughter-in-law care for twin babies, I know it's no joke. But there was more to it. 

This man it seemed had just a medical proclivity towards depression. And then, as is often the case, there was an event that allowed that depression to really take hold and grip his heart. You see, one day he was preaching to thousands in the Surrey Gardens Music Hall when pranksters yelled fire and panic broke loose. People tried frantically to exit the building. They were all running from absolutely nothing. But seven people died that day. And 28 experienced severe life-altering injuries. 

Charles Spurgeon’s mind was never the same again. His wife Susanna wrote, “My beloved’s anguish was so deep and violent that reason seemed to totter in her throne, and we sometimes feared he would never preach again.”

You know, Charles Spurgeon was known for his quick wit. He was so fun to be around that many could hardly imagine the battle he faced in private, dark clouds, deep physical pain, which is a common struggle for many who battled depression. He fought this his entire life. But he did preach again. In fact, he penned over 63 volumes of sermons and wrote 35 books. 

Why was he able to do this in spite of his crippling pain and the emotional bondage that he faced? Well, the Lord of course, but also Susie, that's what Charles Spurgeon called his dear wife. When he was depressed, she read to him. If he could manage it, she walked with him. 

You know, I have to pause and say we don't always have to go straight to theology when it comes to comforting hurting hearts. Sometimes it's more appropriate and Christ-like to just sit with them.

But Susie did also direct her dear husband's mind to the Scriptures. She listened as her husband processed his depressions and fears and filtered them through the Scripture. And that's what brings us to the passage I want to share with you today. 

You see, one day, just weeks after that terrible event in the musical hall, when the pit of depression was deep, they were walking and meditating on the book of Philippians together, when Charles had a significant breakthrough. 

I want to read to you the passage that they were meditating on that day. It's found in Philippians 2, verses 4 through 11. This passage became a lifelong linchpin and his battle with depression by the way. It reads,

Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

What did Charles Spurgeon see in those verses? Well, Susie reported that he saw his own role to empty himself to be obedient, and if necessary, be obedient to the point of death. This depression was his emptying. This was his death. And more importantly, Charles Spurgeon saw the exalted and reigning Christ that he so dearly loved, and he saw Christ's pain. He took his eyes off his own pain, his depression, his battles, and he put them on to the pain of his Savior. And that was a turning point in his battle with depression. 

That was when he began to walk in victory, even if not full relief. Now, you heard Susie feared he might never preach again. And he had told her that he didn't even want to talk about this tragic night even to his mother, let alone speak of it in public. But after that walk with Susie, after that encounter with meditating in Philippians 2, he stepped up to the pulpit to preach. And he talked about that event, that horrific event. And that first message that he preached was from Philippians 2.

I'm so thankful that the Scriptures were God's great tool of courage for Charles Spurgeon, and they can be yours too. But I want you to notice that this man's dear wife was God's sweet hands of help, to read, to listen, to walk, to hold the truth of the Scriptures for a depressed husband. 

Now, maybe some of you today are inspired by this sweet passage and others, maybe you're inspired by the wife, who helped a husband find it. I know that I am. Portia.

Portia: Dannah, Dannah, Dannah. So, Dannah, I'm going to apologize because I stole your thunder. I had no clue that you were going to mention Charles Spurgeon today. 

Dannah: No worries. 

Portia: What you shared makes my heart so happy. Oh, that was such a blessing to me. Thank you so much. 

Well, we want to equip you to head into your day holding on to God's truth. We've got a couple of tools we want to pass your way. First is a blog written by Colleen Chao. You saw her in the video earlier, and she was smiling her way through terminal cancer. But Colleen has also fought a 25-year battle with depression. And there are four things she tells us when depression comes knocking. And I tell myself these same things. So, we'll drop a link to Colleen’s blog in the comments and in the show notes, if you're listening. 

Erin: Oh, that post is a goldmine. I started to say, a blog mine, that’s no such a thing, but it's a gold mine. It's good for us to be ready because we don't always know when we're gonna find ourselves in the valley. It's good for us to be equipped. I've also got a short podcast series to recommend to you. It's called Truth to Counter Depression. It features some really wise and gifted thinkers we've actually had here on Grounded, both doctors. David and Shona Murray, they are a married couple. They speak about these, what we call “mental health issues.” We love that phrase. We use that a lot. They speak about those issues through a biblical lens, and we want to equip you to be ready again. And so, we're going to drop the link to that podcast series. 

Portia: Good deal. What an episode guys.

Dannah: I'm looking at the comments from our sweet, sweet friends, and so many of them are confessing that they've struggled. Jolette is saying, “The honest, vulnerable conversation between Erin and Bethany brought a flood of tears. I'm praising God, and praying for you both.” But many of them are confessing that they too have been battling. And sometimes it was the catalyst of a specific event. I want to say to you there they wrote about those events. In the comments. You'll see one woman experienced an accident in December, and she's not been the same since just as an event can be the catalyst for fear and depression. The word can be your catalyst for hope healing, just as it was for Charles Spurgeon. 

Erin: Amen.

Dannah: So, dig into the Word this week, my sister, if you're battling. And walk by the side those you love. Walk with them; sit with them; listen. Take them to the Word because that is our catalyst for hope and joy.

Portia: Amen.

Erin: Maybe you said this, and I couldn't agree more. We don't want to give the impression that every Christian is depressed all the time. That's not true. And though I've certainly experienced periods of sadness, I'm not one who would say depression has haunted me. But this episode makes me want to really intentionally come alongside those people I know.

Portia: Yes.

Erin: I love that Bethany described it that way. Open their mouths and force feed them some Scripture if needed. So, good encouragement for all of us. 

Portia: Yes, that has been such a lifter for me having people come alongside me and to help me counsel my heart with God's Word when I am just warring through a dark time. I'm pretty sure a lot of the Church would appreciate that. 

Erin: Yep, absolutely. 

Portia: All right, guys. Well, you want to set a reminder right now so that you don't miss Grounded it next week. We've got some guests who are going to help us know what to say and what not to say when we are in conflict. I need that okay.

Erin: I’ll be taking notes. 

Portia: Because I don't always say the right thing when I make conflict. So, come next week, join us, and let's wake up with hope together next week, on Grounded. 

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