There's a Pastor Crisis. You're the Solution, with Jani Ortlund

Burnout is taking its toll on church leaders. While your pastor battles discouragement and exhaustion, your pastor's wife is likely very lonely. How can you encourage and support your pastor and his family? Hear practical suggestions from guests Jani Ortlund and Ray and Robyn McKelvy in this episode of Grounded.

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Episode Notes
"The Pastors Aren't All Right" article
The Great Recital
Help! I'm Married to My Pastor book by Jani Ortlund
"Let's Go to Church!" booklet 
"Fasting and Feasting" season of The Deep Well with Erin Davis podcast

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Dannah Gresh: Well, hey, they're ready for this. What do spinach, chiropractors, and your pastor have to do with each other? Find out today. I'm Dannah Gresh, and this is Grounded.

Erin Davis: Dannah, it's too early for riddles. I don't do riddles, but I'm curious. 

I'm Erin Davis, and you might know us as women on a mission. Here's that mission. We want to give you hope and perspective week after week. Dannah, we can't leave a member in suspense any longer. Somebody's trying to Google the answer to this riddle, I'm sure. What are we talking about on this episode of Grounded?

Dannah: We made this riddle up in case you didn't guess yet. But October happens to be a month full of celebration. Celebration for spinach lovers month. I don't know about you, maybe you’re a spinach lover.

Erin: I’m a spinach lover.

Dannah: Yeah, you are. I myself am not. National chiropractors’ month, I will celebrate that. I thank the Lord for my chiropractor. It's national dessert month; it's national cookie month. Like it's a lot of national months. 

Erin: Oh, national dessert and cookie . . . I feel like we need a whole episode of Grounded on that. I don't know what we’d do except eat good desserts, but I like it. 

Dannah: Eat cookies.

Erin: Yeah, eat cookies. 

Dannah: I don't think you probably need hope in perspective when it comes to national cookie month, though, to be quite honest. But you might need some when it comes to your pastor and his family. And really, that's what we want to talk about today. Because this is Pastors’ Appreciation Month, and we want to celebrate that.

Erin: You might be thinking, Oh, I don't think this is for me. I'm not a pastor's wife. I'm not a pastor. My pastor seems to be doing fine. Well, let me give you some fast facts that I hope will change your perspective very early on in this conversation. Christianity Today released an article not long ago, and the title was “The Pastors Aren't All Right.”

In that article they reported some numbers, including that nearly 40% of our pastors are seriously considering leaving the ministry right now . . . 40%. They ask pastors about their mental health, their mental well-being, and the percentage of those who said yeah, my mental health is pretty good to excellent, that was down by 60%. 

Now those numbers didn't even ask pastors’ wives, pastors’ kids, how they were doing. But think about that for a minute. A half of pastors considering leaving the ministry, huge nosedive of pastors who say they do really well. And there's a lot of experts that are predicting that we're heading towards something that they're calling the widespread clergy shortage. 

If your pastor is considering leaving the ministry, you may not even know it. But you also need to know that it might not be easy to replace those leaders in your church should they succumb to burnout. And listen, no shepherds among the flock is bad news for us sheep. So that means that lack of leadership in our churches, it really is everyone's concern, and we want to do something about that this morning.

Dannah: Yeah, you know, when you said that Erin about pastors feeling that way, I think you know it's harder for me to watch my husband go through something than it is for me to go through something. So how are the wives doing?

I can confirm that. Not that Christianity Today needs to check in with Dannah Gresh when they do their surveys, but . . .

Erin: Confirmed by Dannah Gresh. 

Dannah: Yes, I just want to confirm that my denomination, in our district, we usually will change about two pastors a year. But I was speaking to our district superintendent, and it's in the double digits near 20 right now. So, something very significant is shifting.

Erin: That’s what you call hockey change, and we should always pay attention right? 

Dannah: Exactly. When there's hockey stick growth or decline, we need to pay attention. We're going to tool you up today. We're going to give you the tools you need to encourage your pastor, his wife, all the other leaders in your church. We have just the right person to help us—Jani Ortlund. She is an author, and she is a familiar friend of Revive Our Hearts. She has been a pastor's wife for more than 40 years. She's here this morning to help us to know what to say, what not to say, and how to pray for our pastors and their wives.

Erin: And she's gonna do it so graciously. This is not an episode where we talk about all that's wrong with the Church. We are here to lift the Church up this morning. I was remembering my years as a pastor's wife. I'm still married. My husband just now serves on the staff of Revive Our Hearts, so he's not in that church pastor role. But there are real challenges there and also real opportunities. 

We want you to come out of here energized. We could not do an episode on celebrating pastors and their wives without our very own Robyn and Ray McKelvy. They've already been feeding us, encouraging us, just as we've been prepping for this episode. So standby, they'll be joining this livestream really soon.

Dannah: I know you think we've already had good news as we've talked about dessert and cookies, but there's still more to come. 

Erin: Yeah, right. 

Dannah: So Portia girl, do you have some good news for us? 

Good News: Scripture Memory – 15:19

Portia Collins: Yes, yes, of course, I have good news. Well, get this. I mean, I got more questions and pop quizzes and all of that. Alright, so answer this. How many verses of the Bible do you have memorized? Or how about this? How many books of the Bible do you have memorized? 

Ooh, that's a tough one. Well, we've got a good news guest this morning who is going to show us up, and she's going to inspire us to know God's Word more. So welcome to Grounded Brittany.

Brittany Schlicter: Hi, Portia. Thank you. I'm so honored to be here today.

Portia: I'm so excited to have you here. Okay, you see the smile? Like I'm ready. I'm ready. Because I know this is gonna bless our Grounded sisters. So, check this out. Brittany, take us back to your teenage years. I hear that you participated in the National Bible Bee. So, what was that experience like for you?

Brittany: Well, it was an amazing, amazing experience. It impacted me a lot. I started participating in the National Bible Bee when I was 13, which was the inaugural year of competition. If you've heard of the National Spelling Bee, which I'm sure everyone has here, then the Bible Bee instead of memorizing words, you're memorizing Bible verses, and you're studying books of the Bible in depth. 

Then you go from a local level of competition straight to a national level, everyone who moves on moves straight to Nationals, and they compete at Nationals. And in the final levels of competition, you're competing on stage or siting Scripture. You can't miss a single word. You can't repeat a word to self-correct.

So, it's very intense. But participating in that experience just impacted me a lot. It inspired me to memorize more Scripture than I ever thought I could. I'd memorized a little bit here and there before but never on the level of Bible Bee. That first year there was, I guess, about 1100 verses being memorized. So it was a lot more than I was used to. 

Portia: That brings me to my next question. How many books of the Bible have you memorized? 

Brittany: I've memorized 26. 

Portia: Oh, that is amazing. 26. Now, for y'all who are not doing the math. There are 66 books in the Bible, and she has 26 of those 66 memorized. Wow! Do you have some kind of superpower? Okay, how did you remember? How did you memorize so much Scripture?

Brittany: Oh, well, it was definitely just God's grace. I you know, it's kind of funny. I think it was Thomas Edison that said that genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. And I think Scripture memory is a little bit similar. It might be 1% your personal ability to retain information, but then it's 99% God's grace and a lot of prayer and just work. I don't really have a special system. I guess just probably reading out loud. Seeing the words on the page, listening, repeating the words as I memorize. Just those are some things that have helped me.

Portia: Oh, I love it. I love it. I love it. All right. Well, something exciting is starting tomorrow and I know our Grounded girls are going to see this is good news. So, tell us about what's happening in Dallas tomorrow.

Brittany: So, in Dallas tomorrow throughout this weekend, so from Tuesday through Saturday, there's going to be an event held at the Institute for Creation Research, their center Discovery Center. It's called the Great Recital where seven people from all walks of life are going to come together and recite the entire New Testament. And what's special about this, the timing, what's significant about the timing of this is that this is the week of the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles. It’s when the Jewish God's people would come together and specifically hear God's Word being read, the Scripture is being read. 

So, we're going to, I guess, sort of honor that tradition and come together and recite the New Testament. You can participate live or on the livestream. It's going to be livestreamed on their website.

Portia: That is exciting. I love the fact that you guys are dedicating yourself to the public reading or reciting of Scripture. So, you know, I got to ask, can we get a sneak peek? Can you give us a few verses?

Brittany: Sure. So, um, I'll do a few verses from 1 Peter, 1 Peter 1:3–5, 

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Portia: We needed that this morning. Thank you, we could just stop right here. Thank you so much. 

Well, we're here to give our Grounded sisters the scoop that you won't get on your Instagram feeds. The fact that a group of Christians will be reciting the entire New Testament from memory this week is absolutely good news. 

So Brittany, I just want to finish up and ask you this. And you can throw in whatever you are about to say, but how has God's Word transformed you? 

Brittany: It's really hard to know where to start. But I think just having God's Word hidden in my heart has just given me a foundation that I can stand on. Even in difficult times, when life is hard, when life is good, just having it's a refuge to go back to over and over. I think hiding God's Word my heart has helped. It's just been a compass for me to live by to help me know how to glorify the Lord and to know Him better. So yes, ma'am. And the note that I was going to add was, I was gonna tell everybody the website. ICR.org is where you can go to watch the great recital this weekend. And I hope that any people can just participate with us and lifting up God's Word. 

Portia: Absolutely, and Grounded family, we got you covered. We're going to drop that link in the chat. Brittany, thank you for being with us. Way to go for God's glory.

Brittany: Yes ma’am. And thank you so much. I enjoyed talking with you today.

Portia: Likewise, Erin Davis, I hear that you're going to get us grounded in God's Word.

Grounded in God's Word: Hebrews 13:7, 17 – 22:27

Erin: I am, but I don't have it memorized. Wow, 26 books of the Bible. That is to be commended. And it's silly for me to say, I'm going to get us grounded in God's Word. Brittany just did that for us. But I'm going to take us to God's Word again. And things are a little bit out of order for normal Grounded. 

Normally, we'd head into our interview here, but I just wanted us to know that there's a biblical foundation for this idea that we have a responsibility to our pastors and their families. We didn't just make up Pastors’ Appreciation Month. I mean, somebody did, but it's a biblical thought. And that, for me, makes it something that I take from maybe just a good idea to something that I actually know I'm responsible for. 

We're going to be in the book of Hebrews, specifically, Hebrews 13. I'm gonna let you in on a little secret that you may or may not be aware of. And that's, that your pastor's wife is likely very lonely, which can feel counterintuitive, because your pastor's wife also probably has a very, very full calendar of lots of people in her life. But if you could get her to be honest, if you could pull her away from the group and ask her how she really felt about her relationships, I'm fairly confident that she'd say she's lonely.

I was doing research for a book several years ago, which included these focus groups in several cities. I found that in city after city, regardless of where I was on the map, the loneliest women in those groups were Christian women, often married to their pastor. They told us over and over that they didn't have anyone that they could be themselves around.

And you add into that mix that the Church can sometimes be hypercritical of pastors’ wives and their families because of expectations that they look a certain way, behave a certain way, participate in church life in a certain way. What we've got on our hands is a real crisis. That might feel like I'm being dramatic. Y'all know me, you know, I have a flair for the dramatic. But I don't think it's an overstatement to say that we've got a pastor crisis among our pastors and their families in the areas of loneliness, burnout, physical fatigue, other physical symptoms. Pastors are historically among the most unhealthy people in our population. 

There's a mantra that I've long believed, which is that somebody who is alone or lonely in our mix on a Sunday morning is an emergency, and that we all have a responsibility there. And when that person who is alone or lonely in our midst is the pastor or his wife or his kids or the whole family, that should be like a five-alarm fire emergency for all of us. Why? 

Because then we're asking them to lead from a place of loneliness. We're asking them to lead from a place of discouragement. We're asking them to lead sometimes from a place of spiritual emptiness because they don't have time to nurture their own walk with the Lord. 

Now, is this just a soapbox of mine? Or does the Bible have something to say about it? Well, I already told you, the answer is probably both. 

So, open your Bible to Hebrews chapter 13. The Bible is full of practical insight for how we take care of each other, those one anothers of Scripture are all over the Bible. And many of them are speaking to how we care for one another inside the family of God. And as an extension of our faith in the way that we are supposed to treat husbands and wives and parents and children. A lot of those principles definitely apply to how we as sheep are supposed to minister to our shepherds, and some of us are shepherds. There's some reciprocity there about our own relationship with our sheep. 

Listen to Hebrews 13:7 which says this, “Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith.” 

Lots there, so practical, but it starts with remember your leaders. Monday mornings a good time to do that, because they are tired from all that was required of them yesterday. They might have gotten some jabs from somebody maybe well intentioned, who said something about their sermon or their family that hurt them. 

Scripture is saying, hey, pay attention to that those who are leading you to God's Word, who helped you see Christ for who He is, who are helping you follow Him. Emulate them, but also pay attention to them. 

The writer’s calling for a report card of sorts, not a judgment on the sermon. Man, I fight that one as a professional communicator and a Bible teacher. My flesh’s intention is to pay attention and all the things that I might have said better or differently. I don't like that in me. It's rooted in being critical. 

And the writer of Hebrews is not telling us to be critical of our leaders, but to take the time to recognize them because of the sacrifice your spiritual leaders are making those who teach you God's Word. There has been an outcome in your life. What is the outcome of your pastor’s preaching? Your Bible study leader’s teaching? Even those of us on Grounded who are trying to point you to God's Word week after week? Have they grown your church? Have they grown your knowledge of God's Word. Have they been a part of encouraging you to stand up against the cultural tide? 

Here Scripture’s saying, take a moment and think. What is your own pastor’s commitment to serve the Lord done in your life? in your community? 

All of Hebrews 13 is rich and practical. But I want to skip us to verse 17 which says, 

Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you. 

This verse feels loaded in light of the scandal and leadership failure that is being exposed in churches today. But bad leaders cannot make God's Word untrue. Your pastor will give an account for your walk with Jesus, Scriptures telling us here. It's a mysterious reality, but it carries weight. I'm not a pastor. I don't ever plan to be one. But I do lead a group of about 15 or 20 women in Bible study in my living room every Thursday, and I feel the weight of this verse that I need to study. I need to prep. I need to teach the Word rightly. And I promise you, anybody who's shepherding you feels that way as well. 

I told you I was married to a youth pastor. We're still married. He just not a youth pastor. He serves on the team at Revive Our Hearts, and I served as the women's ministry leader at my own church for several years. I still lead that group of women week after week, and it is a weighty assignment. 

We are given here some very clear instructions for how to lighten that load. First we obey, we submit. We give them reason for joy, because a happy shepherd has happy sheep.

Just this last week, one of the women in my Bible study took her five minutes to send me a text about what it means to her that I have her in my home every week, and that I opened my Bible with them, and that I don't try to have all the answers. And that little text is enough to keep me teaching for a while until I get some other form of encouragement. 

You're gonna have to take my word for it. If you're not fully convinced, your pastor and his family need your support. That's not somebody else's job. It's your job. And it's not just a theory, not just a thing for us to talk about and then move on. I want you to do something for your pastor this week. 

What can you do? Here's some of the things that have blessed me in the past. Gift cards for food, pizza being delivered that I didn't order. “Can I take your kids for a little while?” “Hey, you want to go for a walk?” “Hey, that sermon you preached that really impacted me.” A card in the mail doesn't have to cause money, and it doesn't have to take much time. But I want you to make a decision right now that you're going to do something for your pastor and his family this week. And then I want you to tell us about it in the chat. Let us know what are going to do?

And if you're a pastor's wife watching this, we love you. We think that the sacrifices you're making for King Jesus are beautiful and inspiring. We want to be more like you. Okay, there's your assignment, celebrate your pastor. Make his job joyful this week. 

So now we've got the theology from Hebrews, but what does it look like to walk this out? Practically? I gave you some ideas, but I think we're gonna get some more. 

Dannah is going to interview Jani here in just a second and give you some wisdom on how you can bless those who lead in your life. 

Grounded with God's People: Jani Ortlund – 31:18

Dannah: That was some good stuff to digest—a good spiritual steak for Monday morning. Erin Davis reminds me of another verse in Hebrews that I love a whole lot. It’s my husband's favorite verse, one of them. Hebrews 11, I believe it says, “Think of ways to encourage one another without bursts of love and good deeds.” Let's do that. 

And to help us do that is Jani Ortlund. She is the vice president of a legacy ministry left to her and her husband by Ray and Ann Ortlund. The ministry is called Renewal Ministries. They love revival, and they help pastors and leaders to help people experience that in their lives and in their ministries. 

Now, she and her husband Ray, also Ray. Her husband is named Ray. They have left a legacy of their own. They have children and grandchildren all over the place serving Jesus. She's been a pastor's wife for over four decades. I think she's just the right person to help us to know how to encourage our pastors and their wives this month. Good morning, Jani.

Jani Ortlund: Oh, good morning. Dannah, thank you so much for the privilege of being with you on this Monday morning. 'm so encouraged by what Erin said. It is amazing what you already helped us with this.

Dannah: Yes, we are off to a good start. I got to play the devil's advocate for just a second. I am one of those people who's not very thrilled about what I call Hallmark holidays, where you just feel obligated to buy a card. I kind of consider Valentine's Day one of those. Is Pastors’ Appreciation Month just one of those? Or is there really a need for it? Why does it matter, Jani?

Jani: There really is a need for it Dannah. And the reason it matters is because our souls are of eternal significance. And the one who is given the duty and the privilege to nurture the souls of the saints is the pastor, the shepherd, the leader. So, this is not a hallmark at all. This is the Bible.

Dannah: Yeah, good stuff. Well, can you tell us about a time as a pastor's wife that you felt utterly discouraged, but someone in your congregation came alongside you and just breathed hope, perspective, and life into you? Take us to that time.

Jani: Oh my. Which time would you like? How long do we have? an hour two for me? I've been so blessed by women around me who have encouraged me in times of hardship. I think of one particular time is the fall of 2007. There were some people who were not being honest about my husband. He was reading slander about himself that had a very negative effect on our ministry. I was at my end. I was trying to encourage my husband, keep our children notified about what was the latest news. I had lost my appetite. Dannah, I know some women might think that would be a blessing. But for me, it was not a blessing. I was just struggling with nausea all the time, so I couldn't eat. 

My dear friend who had helped us plant our church, she saw how I was struggling. She would text me, call me every once in a while. I remember one time she just picked me up. She said, “I'm coming over; we're going for a ride.” And she drove me to Sonic. Do you have some Sonics in your neck of the woods?

Dannah: No, we don't. 

Jani: Well, it’s a wonderful fast-food place. She ordered me this huge chocolate milkshake because she knows I'm a sucker for chocolate milkshakes. And she said, “Jani, we're going to stay here for you drink the whole thing. You've just got to get some weight on your bones, because you're not going to be able to help your husband and your family, and ultimately, your church if you don't take care of yourself. She helped me take care of myself. That's what I needed.

Dannah: That’s beautiful. I love that. It's a sacrifice of time. Sometimes we want to take the easy road out. We just want to give a gift card or card. But sometimes we need to get in the trenches with these pastors and their wives and their families and roll up our sleeves and drive to Sonic and buy a chocolate milkshake. Jani, give us some tips and ideas on things that we should be doing this month to encourage our pastors and their wives.

Jani: Well, one thing, use specific words to thank your pastor. After he has preached, he always loves to hear, “Oh, great sermon, thank you so much. But it means even more if you said, “It really ministered to my heart.” That phrase you used and then give him the phrase so that he knows you listened, “It helped me in this way.” The more specific you can be, the deeper it will sink into your husband's heart that oh, that person was listening, and God's Spirit used my little effort to help them. So, use specific language.

Dannah: You're speaking of when a pastor's wife is encouraging a pastor but that applies to all of us, right? All of us can think about that. What else?

Jani: I hope that congregants will do that. As a friend, your pastor, not just your pastor's wife, pray for him, pray for his family, pray for his wife, pray for His children. There are so many things that he needs that you can pray for specifically. Yeah. Could I list a few Dannah? Do we have time?

Dannah: I would love it. If you could give us some tips on how we specifically should pray for our pastors that would be great.

Jani: Well, pray for their marriage. Pray that that pastor's wife will be wildly in love with your pastor. Pray that God protects their marriage from outside attacks from Satan. Pray that their marriage can be an example to their children, so that their children don't resent ministry, because of what it takes from their parent’s marriage. 

Pray that their marriage can be an example to the congregants, to the sheep, so that they have in their midst a visual of a man loving his wife and a wife loving her husband. Pray for their marriage. 

Pray for their children. It's not easy to raise children in the public eye. Pray that their kids will love the Lord, individually, that they will find Him beautiful to their own souls not just because of their parents, but individually. 

Where is that verse in Psalms, it's towards the end . . . I think it might be around 122 where it says, “I was glad when they said unto me, let us go into the house of the Lord.” Pray that that's how those kids feel. 

Dannah: Yeah, amen. 

Jani: Not that we’ve got to go to church because that's where my dad works and I don't really want. But pray their parents would help them and the Holy Spirit would indeed help them be happy to go to church and be happy to be the child of a pastor. 

Dannah: That's right. My husband's not a pastor, but we have been leaders in ministry for a long time. I feel like sometimes congregants are afraid to approach the pastor's kids or the leader’s kids, to minister and reach out to them and pray with them the way they would for every other kid in the church. Don't overlook our kids. Go invest in their hearts, invest in their lives. They need that support as much as everybody else in the church. 

Jani, what are your last words of encouragement for us as we enter into this month of encouraging pastors and their wives?

Jani: My last word is, thank you. Your pastor's wife and your pastor are so grateful that they have people who are looking to them for spiritual leadership. You are helping them fulfill their calling from God. So my word is thank you for loving your pastor. It makes everything better.

Dannah: Wow, a good word from Jani Ortlund. Thanks for being with us this morning, Jani.

Jani: Thanks for having me, Dannah.

Dannah: You know, I have a last word, and it is that Jani is the author of a book. It's relatively new. It's called Help! I'm married to My Pastor. I think it would be a great gift for your pastor's wife this month during Pastors’ Appreciation Month. The subtitle is Encouragement for Ministry Wives and Those Who Love Them. Get yourself a copy, wrap it up, put a pretty bow on it, and then drive your pastor's wife to Sonic when you give it to her and buy her chocolate milkshake. 

Hey, we couldn't do a Pastors’ Appreciation Month episode without a pastor that we know and love very much. His name is Ray McKelvy. He just happens to be married to someone we love a whole lot, Robyn McKelvy. They are here to give us some hope and perspective on how we can bless and encourage our own pastors and wives this month.

Grounded with the McKelvy's – 41:22

Robyn McKelvy: Dannah, thanks for having us. We are so excited to be here. We have been a part of a lot of ministries, ad we do notice that Pastor Appreciation Month is one that isn't noted as well as Valentine's Day or Christmas or some of those things. But I love that 1 Thessalonians 5 tells us to encourage one another, just as you're doing. I mean, we're doing it at the grocery store. We're doing it in other places. But we need to encourage to our pastor and his wife. And so, I'm gonna let Ray do this because he's the pastor of our church. And Jani, I'm married to my pastor, and I love him.

Ray McKelvy: Well, you know, this is a privilege. I could go on and on and on about how to encourage a pastor. You guys have done a great job already. Erin, fantastic job getting us grounded in the Word, and Jani, I respect you and Ray so much. I have followed not only your ministry, but followed Ray's father's ministry, back when he used to host Haven of Rest way back a long time ago. So, your legacy has affected this Ray, as well.

So anyway, when I think about how to encourage your pastor, it is so important that, well, I'll just start. Number one, allow him to be himself. I think a lot of times the church puts expectations on what the pastor should be like it, and the church can do that with the pastor's wife as well. Allow the pastor's family, the pastor to be himself, his wife to be herself. 

My wife has a lot of gifts. I remember when we shared a pastorate with another family, a lot of our people in our church plant would compare my wife with the other pastor's wife. And that could be a very difficult time. We were able to navigate that but we learned so many wonderful things about allowing just a pastor's wife to be herself. 

You don't have to allow my wife to be herself, she will be herself. After all these years of marriage, we've been in ministry together for 35 years or more. And so, that's one of the things that I would say. 

Be creative in encouraging your pastor. I think notes that have already been mentioned, having a note here or there. This past Sunday I just preached on spiritual warfare. I'm in Ephesians chapter 6, and when I got home, after preaching, I had two texts from two men that said, “Thank you, Pastor, thank you.” That message was so meaningful. That blesses my heart. So, I that was very encouraging. 

Here's another creative way. I was preaching through the book of Romans. I remember when we got to verse 8, I said that I wish I had a gavel. I could just pound it on the pulpit and say, “No condemnation,” that God has legally said, “No condemnation.” 

It was maybe a couple of weeks later I got a package in the mail, a box. I opened it, and it was a gavel. And on that gavel it said, “No condemnation.” Then under it, “Pastor Ray McKelvy.” I keep that on my desk. That was a creative way that someone wanted to encourage me. 

Another thing that I think about as way you can encourage a pastor is when you are around your pastor don't just talk shop. And by that I mean, don't just talk about church things, or how to improve what's happening in the church. Just talk about everyday normal things. A pastor, his wife and family would just love to hang out with you, to be invited over for dinner. A lot of times, I don't know if people were intimidated, because we had 10 kids, they didn't know if they should invite us over or whatever. But it was always another blessing and a surprise when people would invite us over. We were like, whoa! 

Robyn: Bring the whole family which was rare for us.

Ray: Yeah. So, include the pastor in on normal, everyday things when you go to a movie or like in our church, they'll do cornhole. I don't know if you know what that is. But cornhole competitions, and I get so excited, because we get invited to those gatherings where we can just be ourselves.

Robyn: Another thing that really has been a blessing to us, and this is our third year that our congregation has done this. We have people that pray for us every single day. Now, I know you can't see the names on here. But there are names of people on here that pray for us every single day. 

And so, whether you're discouraged, whether enemy is coming at you, it's not up to you only to go before the Lord. There are people that are committed to praying for you, your family, your situation. I get text messages, some mornings, where people are like, I'm praying for you today. What specifically can I pray for, and I let it all hang out. Because I think it's important that we, as pastors and wives, can be authentic and honest. 

And so, I tell them, right now, my daughter is going through something. She had to move home while we work on our son-in-law getting some help. It's a lot.

And so, another thing that has really blessed us is gift cards. This is to a local grocery store. It’s such a blessing because it says do everything without complaining. I have to complain because eggs have just quadrupled in price, and we go through a lot of eggs in this house with all of the company that comes through. 

So do something practical so we can represent Christ and not be grumbling about the eggs in the produce department.

Ray: Okay, I had no idea she was gonna go that direction with it. But that's encouraging in that way to think of those specific things. Here's another way you can encourage your pastor. Don't assume he's okay. Just because he's up front, and he's talking, and he's sharing God's Word, don't assume he's okay. 

I have been so blessed because I have people in my life who will look me in the eye. They'll say, “Pastor Ray, how are you doing?” And even if I say, “I'm doing great.” They'll say, “Pastor Ray, how are you really doing? I want to know; I want to be involved in your life. I want to bless you.” 

And we are surrounded in our church with people who are concerned for our lives and what's happening with us. I'm very thankful that it's not just those who were a wanting from us, but are concerned about us as people. 

Anything else you want to say? Well, another way you can bless—I know Portia is about to join us—but give your pastor time off. Think about a sabbatical. I could go on and on. Portia, it's yours, or I'll just keep going.

Portia: Well, you know, I can listen to you talk all day, Ray. 

Well, October is a long month. That means we have plenty of opportunities to do good to those who shepherd us. We always want to give you some tools to help you walk out what you learn here on Grounded. And here's a new tool. It is a new booklet from Revive Our Hearts called Let's Go to Church! I love it. And consider this as a refresher course on how to love and serve the local church, you can get this resource for a gift of any amount this month. And for those of you who are monthly partners, you can log into your Revive Our Hearts online account and request it straight from your computer or mobile device. And so, we'll drop a link where you can check it out. 

Also, and I'm really excited about this, we want to share something new from one of our Grounded girls, one of our hostesses about The Deep Well Podcast, which is a teaching podcast of our very own Erin Davis. We dropped a new season last week, and I've been checking it out, and I think you should too. It is on the topics of fasting and feasting, and all eight episodes are available now. I know that you're gonna want to check it out. We'll drop a link so that you can do that.

Dannah: Thank you Portia girl. I’m super excited about that season of The Deep Well by Erin Davis. 

Hey, guys, I got one thing I want to drive home today as Robyn was talking. I just got an itch in my spirit to say this. She was talking about how she just kind of shares in raw, real truth what she's walking through. 

Pastors’ wives, ministry leaders, we've got to lead with our limp. If we want our churches to be the safe place we need, sometimes we have to go first. Robyn models that in her own congregation. 

I just wonder, could you start with one woman to say this is what I'm really walking through. This is where I really need encouragement, or maybe one small group. The more we as leaders lead with our limp, the more the people that follow us are going to understand that the church is for sinners, saved by grace, imperfect, and very much in need of healing. Let's lead with our limp this month, friends, and let’s make the Church a safe place. 

Portia: So good.

Erin: I’m in. I'm a limping leader for sure. And don't want to pretend I'm anything other. We've given you lots of ideas. I hope we've given you lots of support and encouragement for why encouraging your pastor's family is important. So, we turn it over to you and want you to actually do something with all you've heard in this episode. And we want you to come back. 

Dannah: Hey Erin, I have an idea. 

Erin: Okay.

Dannah: We could probably combine National Cookie month and National Dessert month with Pastor Appreciation Month. I think that would make a great combo. Cookies to every pastor's house delivered this week courtesy of your Grounded cohosts.

Erin: I love it. Maybe ignore spinach lovers month with Pastor Appreciation Month. But yeah, I like it. I'm gonna keep what Robyn said about the eggs. Eggs are expensive. And sometimes somebody will just drop off farm fresh eggs here and there. What a huge blessing that is. 

So, you're not walking away without plenty of practical applications. I hope you're going to be back here next Monday. We're going to be talking about what does it look like to live set apart lives on social media. Do you actually think it is possible? Next week, we're gonna be talking about social sanity in an insta-world. 

So, you need to be there. Whether you have one social media account or zero social media accounts, we all need to know how to navigate those waters. Actually, I think that speaks to pastor appreciation too, because sometimes the things we say on social are the things that are most hurtful to those shepherding us. 

So, join us back here next Monday. We're gonna wake up together next week on Grounded.

Erin: Grounded audio is powered by Skype. Grounded is a production of Revive Our Hearts, calling women to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ.

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