Two Reasons Women Don’t Lament (When They Should), with Mark Vroegop

What can heal our families and churches from the sorrows of the past two years? Could it be lament? Hear more from Pastor Mark Vroegop as he shares how to talk to God about our broken world. 

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Episode Notes

Cry Out! Global Prayer Event

“Learning the Language of Biblical Lament” podcast

Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy by Mark Vroegop

Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy Devotional Journal

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Dannah Gresh: How should we talk to God about our broken world? That's the big question we're going to consider today. You're watching Grounded and I'm Dannah Gresh. 

Erin Davis: That is a big question, Dannah. I'm Erin Davis. And here's why this episode is for you if you're watching. The past few years have been marked by a lot of fear. A lot of anger loss, sadness, I could probably…

Dannah: Hey Erin, I’m gonna interrupt you right now. That's not exactly a news flash, if you know what I'm saying.

Erin: You're right, it’s not breaking news this Monday morning. I know, I hesitated to say it because I think we're all over it. But a global pandemic, a series of heartbreaking shootings, racial division, inflation. I know that that's not new news. But as a Christian learning how and why to lament, that might just be breaking news this morning.

Dannah: I will agree with you on that, Erin. But here's the thing—so many of us are not lamenting, but we should be. 

Erin: Hmm. 

Dannah: And why? Why aren't we lamenting? That's a question we're going to consider today. And I think one of the reasons is—the number one reason, perhaps is—that there's a lie that many women believe that prevents us from lamenting. I'm going to tell you what it is today so you can take inventory of your own heart. Hopefully you're not falling prey, but I gotta tell you, I think there's a pretty good chance that you are.

Erin: Yeah, I'd say there's probably a pretty good chance that I am. Just the thought of lamenting makes me uncomfortable. So, it's good. I'm already uncomfortable this Monday morning. 

There's a second reason why women don't lament and it's really pretty practical. We don't know how. What is biblical lamentation? You know, there's that book in your Bible, Lamentations, but what does it mean for us to do that? Pastor Mark Vroegop is back on Grounded, one of our favorite guests, and he's going to help us with that this morning. Who do you know right now who's hurting? I imagine that's not a short list for you. Not a short list for me. 

Let me encourage you to take a moment and share Grounded; it’s so easy. Just hit that “share” button. And then the people who follow you on social media are going to see that you're watching. While you're doing it, while you're taking that step to share this episode with those who might be hurting, it's time for me to do what I love to do, which is to call our co-host, Portia girl on. Portia, we need some good news. What is it this morning? 

Portia Collins: Well, I am certainly happy to bring us some mission minded good news this morning. You know, when you think of missionaries, what picture comes to mind? Well, if you live in America, like me, maybe you picture someone who looks like you going to a remote village across the ocean. While it's true that many missionaries have been obedient to share the Great Commission in this way, did you know that our nation, as our nation faces steep spiritual decline, that there are other countries actually sending missionaries here? Yes, here. 

In fact, this week, 240 Christian missionaries from South Korea have been here, prayer walking our cities, and asking the Lord to bring a great awakening to America. They have visited about seventeen American cities including Washington D.C., Los Angeles, and many others. They're asking the Lord to send revival. 

Many of the praying Koreans are also the grandchildren of people who came to Christ as a result of a Billy Graham campaign. This was nearly fifty years ago. Because lives and families have been transformed for generations, they feel they owe a spiritual debt to our country. 

One pastor said this: “They know that America is in trouble, and that America stood with them. And they want to stand with America in this time that America is in spiritual trouble—simply praying for a Third Great Awakening in this nation.” 

If the past two years have taught us anything, it is that we desperately, desperately need revival. I don't know about you, but I am both comforted and excited to think about these 240 Christian missionaries who are blanketing our cities in prayer and asking God to revive us again. Praise God for their faithfulness. 

So, to our brothers and sisters in South Korea, you are our good news this morning. Thank you for crying out to the Lord on our behalf. Erin?

Dannah: You get some Dannah Gresh now instead of some Erin because I remember that—when Billy Graham went to South Korea fifty years ago. And I remember reading an article about that crusade, where he said that he was believing at that time, (America had most of the missionaries in the world), and he said “I'm believing that what's happening during this revival right now in this land, that these people are going to be the ones who are going into the mission field and ministering to America.” 

And here we are. Fast forward to 2022. Exactly what he thought would happen is happening. Praise the Lord. I'm so excited. Thanks, Portia, for that good news today.

We're going to get grounded in God's word. Go ahead and grab your Bible. I’ve got my itty bitty travel Bible today. Hey, today, I'm gonna write you a permission slip to grieve. Now, why am I going to do that? Because there's a really good chance you aren't grieving but you should be. Now before I tell you the lie that keeps us from lament, let me tell you how we got here. I was observing my granddaughters playing on a trampoline this weekend, and one of them fell and looked startled. Somebody immediately said, “Get up, get up, get up, you're okay. You're okay, don't cry.” And I thought, wow, how many of us as children were constantly being told, “Don't cry, quit crying. You don't need to cry, be quiet. It's not a big deal. Look on the bright side, count your blessings, just get over it.” And we believed it. 

Satan has built upon those sentences, sentences that replay in our minds, and He's twisted and distorted true things that we hear in church. We've been told in church that Christ has already won the victory, that we should have joy, peace and happiness, that we should rejoice in and find the joy of our salvation. And those things are true. But, sister, it's equally as true that God made you with the capacity to grieve and to lament, and—listen to me—to have empathy for those suffering families in Uvalde, Texas, and Kiev, Ukraine. 

Even so, many women believe a lie that keeps us from lament. Now, I want to really highlight the fact that the sentence I'm about to say is not true. The lie that we believe is: I have to hold it all together. Don't tell me you haven't fallen for that one. I have to hold it all together. Well, why then did Jesus weep at the tomb of his dear friend Lazarus? I mean, think about it. He had power and authority over death, right? And He knew that He was about to raise Lazarus from the dead. But He grieved, why? I think the Savior of the world wept because He was sinless and perfect. 

Here's the truth you need today. Lamenting is a sinless, perfect response to the brokenness that confronts us in this fallen world. I don't know about you, but I'm deeply moved by men and women who authentically express the afflicting, crushing grief they're feeling in their lives and in their heart while they vocalize hope in Christ. There's a recipe right there for lament: crushing grief plus hope and Christ. 

Why am I moved? Well, I think there's three reasons. One, it reminds us of something important. The world is not as it should be. It invites us to pause from our endless busy work, to remember we live in a sinful fallen world. And finally, it calls out to us to consider how we should participate in God's redemptive work for humanity. I need you to know this, my friend. Godly women don't hold it all together. Godly women wail. In the New Testament, God instructed his people to wail during times of sin and injustice. And in Jeremiah 29, or Jeremiah 9, rather, open your Bible to that if you have it nearby—Jeremiah 9. I'd love for you to read the whole chapter. The prophet writes about the nation of Israel dealing with all kinds of evil, wickedness, deceit. And he records this in Jeremiah 9 verses 17 and 18. Let me read it to you. It says,

Thus says the Lord of hosts:
“Consider, and call for the mourning women to come;
send for the skillful women to come;
let them make haste and raise a wailing over us,
that our eyes may run down with tears
and our eyelids flow with water.

Now, I want to point out that the mourning women written about in these verses were professional wailers; they were brought out to conjure up and express the emotions of the people, which makes you want to think: is it possible that the tears of the people of God were so dried up, that they had to pay people to usher in a more appropriate response to what was happening in the world?

Don't let your tears dry out, my friend. You and I need to be fully engaged in the sadness of this season. And it's not just because school shootings and racial division and greed within the supply chain has grieved our hearts, complicated our lives. It's because those things grieve God's heart. 

And when you and I lament, our hearts are in alignment with His, and we are authentically calling upon Him to be our strength.

Now, maybe you've not even considered lamenting is the way you should be processing all of your thoughts and feelings of these past few years. I understand that. There was a time many years ago when my marriage was going through a really deep season of pain caused by some sin and I didn't know I was supposed to be lamenting. But then my Christian counselor, dear Tippi Duncan, assigned me the task of studying the book of Lamentations. 

I’ve got to tell you, I did not think that I was getting my money's worth when she asked me to do that. But I did it. I'll tell you, it's no party in the pages of the Bible. But Lamentations is a phenomenal training tool in authentic Christian living. It's a very practical book, because lamenting is how a Christ-follower grieves. Lamenting is how a Christ-follower grieves the brokenness in our world. 

Now, don't worry, I'm not going to ask you to study Lamentations today. But I am going to ask you to lean in and listen to Pastor Mark Vroegop as he comes in just a few moments. He's going to give us some practical tools and insight about how we lament. What does it look like? What do we do? I think we need that because this is a spiritual discipline that we have ignored. It's time to pull it out, dust it off, and put it to use. 

Now, before Mark and Erin come, I want you to know that we here at Revive Our Hearts believe in corporate lamentation. I just read a really interesting article this weekend, that not only does God's Word instruct us to lament together, but behavioral scientists say it's one of the greatest tools we use to process our grief in the healthiest way. We've got to do it together and not just complain to God, but trust in Him. 

Because we believe in corporate lamentation, we want to invite you to be part of a global prayer event that we're planning. Mark your calendars for Friday, September 23, as part of True Woman ’22. I can't wait. It's coming up in just a few months. I hope you're registered. Revive Our Hearts is going to host an online free livestream event. You can join us from anywhere. Just like those South Korean missionaries have been doing, we are going to call out to God on behalf of our nations. 

We believe that God's pattern in the Scripture is what we do. Just like I read in Jeremiah 9, we're going to cry out to God and ask Him to send revival in our day. Wouldn't you love to see that? We're going to drop a link right now so that you can know how you can get information about that special lamenting event. But for now, as promised, here's Erin and Mark.

Erin: Dannah, thank you. I needed that permission slip. I am not comfortable with lament. So thank you for showing us that in Scripture. Mark Vroegop is here. He's one of the pastors of Grounded. We've had him on before, and he always has so much wisdom to offer. He is a pastor, a husband, a father. And he's one of the few that I've heard teach on something that we really do see throughout all of Scripture, and that is lament. So, let's figure out what it is and how we do it. Welcome back to Grounded, Mark.

Pastor Mark Vroegop: Erin, thanks for having me back. It's great to see you.

Erin: Good to see you. Well, let's get to it. Something I keep bumping into, following the pandemic and the war in Ukraine and the mass shootings, is that we're not okay. But because it happened to all of us, we're not quite sure how to individually process our way through it. We're struggling to have a language for the fact that we're not okay. Have you experienced, as a pastor, that feeling of not being okay in these past couple of years?

Mark: Yeah, in a way that has been both shocking and traumatizing, and yet also redemptive. I mean, the world fell apart, just like overnight. It reminded us in real time, that look, the world is really broken. We need Jesus to come back and make everything right. One of the good things that has come out of this season is I'm seeing a renewed interest in this language of lament, because we need the biblical language to process what in the world is going on? How do we talk to God? Most of us don't study lament. For most of us, lament finds us. Something happens. And we have these really strong emotions. We're really thankful that in the Bible, God has this language that we can talk to him when we're really in pain.

Erin: I know that's what happened for you. Lament found you. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that story?

Mark: Yeah, so 2004, the Lord sent a hard providence our way which was the stillbirth of our fourth daughter, fourth child, a daughter named Sylvia. Just a few days before delivery, she passed away in the womb. That sent us on a long journey of recovery and grief and with multiple miscarriages and trying to serve a church and preach every week. There was something missing, and I really couldn't put my finger on it in terms of what—how Christians process grief. As I began to teach in the Psalms and even study the book of Lamentations, looking back, I could now then see what I was missing was this language of lament. 

And so, I began to study it. I began to teach on it. I just began to realize there's a little piece of our Christian experience that I think a lot of us miss—and that's how do we talk to God when the bottom is falling out? When we have really strong emotions? We wonder if God is going to be good, even though we know that He is? How do you pray in that season and lament was enormously helpful to me and has been helpful to others? As we learn how to process our grief.

Erin: I had kind of forgotten about it until I was prepping to visit with you. But I love that term, hard providence. A hard providence that didn't hit my family but hit some very close friends of ours as their two-year-old baby was dying of cancer. They were in our small group. I mean, we prayed and had faith. We at least had mustard seed faith that sweet Eli would be healed, and he wasn't. And I like you, I just didn't have a language for it. And so, I turned to the book of Lamentations. What does the language of lament sound like? Because I think I can worry that it sounds like whining, or I can worry that it doesn't sound genuine. What is that language of lament?

Mark: Yeah, it's a great question. And it's an important one because one out of every three psalms is a lament. And so, there's all kinds of different ways and or tones that lament can take. There are some laments that are personal, some that are corporate, some that are for justice, some that are repentant. But by definition, I would describe them in this way. It's a prayer in pain that leads to trust. 

So, it sounds like a prayer offered in pain, where I talk to God about what's wrong in the world for the purpose of leading me toward a recommitment that I can trust God, even though life is really hard. Most laments have four elements in them, where we turn to God. We refuse to give Him the silent treatment. We complain; we lay out what's wrong. We ask boldly. We claim the promises of Scripture. And then we choose to trust. So that sort of form of: turn complain, ask, and trust can be a really helpful language to pray through any kind of pain in any kind of sorrow so that we can learn how to trust God when difficulties come our way.

Erin: That's so good. One thing that I've noticed as a Christian is to look for the pivot in those psalms. I mean, David will so often be so honest. Then he will pivot and say, but God, and He will express that. So that's good to know that is what we're talking about here. 

You know, you're not a woman, but you're married to one, you're raising some, you're pastoring women. You might have noticed this too, but we women, we say something really funny when we start crying. It's almost universal. We start crying. Then we all say “I'm sorry,” as if we should not be crying. We feel embarrassed that we're crying. Why do you think it is that we are so uncomfortable with lamenting in front of other people or even alone with God?

Mark: Yeah, I think that's not only an issue for women, I think that's an issue for men. I think it's a human issue. And here's why. Sorrow in the world is designed to be uncomfortable. It's present because of sin. If there would be no sin, there would be no crying, if there wasn't brokenness in the world. And so grief by definition reminds us that there's something wrong with the world, which is why we're so uncomfortable with it. It's something that we, quite frankly, want to stop. So if somebody's crying, our normal instinct is to say, “Hey, stop crying.” But we don't. We don't tell people to stop laughing. The reason we tell people to stop crying is because that grief, that pain, that reality of the brokenness of the world confronts the limitations of our humanity. And yet at the same time, death and brokenness and sorrow are a regular reminder that we need God's help, that there's something in the world that human beings can do nothing about, that is our own mortality. 

Grief is a reminder that the world is broken. It's an early rumbling of what is yet to come in terms of our ultimate conclusion of our life and death. That's why we need to turn to Jesus, because He offers not only atonement for our sins, but also resurrection and a new life. So, lament is the language that Christians pray in this in-between world where we're waiting for Jesus to return, but we're confronted every day with the reality of our mortality.

Erin: Amen. Well, is lament always individual or is it corporate? Do we do it alone or together?

Mark: It's both. Yeah, there are laments that are designed to be prayed individually. And then there's laments that are prayed corporately. I think most of us, at least in my experience, we're more familiar with individual lament. But in the last two years, the one of the gifts of the hard season with COVID was that everything that happened is we were all grieving all at the same time. 

That's why everything got so messy, because we were all really sad and really traumatized. And that's not an unfamiliar moment for Christians all over the world and throughout church history. It's just been an unusual moment for many of us in our lifetime. I think the Lord used it to really teach us some things.

Erin: Yeah, I actually was in counseling last year for some help dealing with my mom's Alzheimer's. I said to my counselor, “I just haven't grieved yet.” She said, “You don't have time to grieve. When you have time, you’ll grieve.” And I thought, I'm not sure that that's true. Like, I think I need to feel the feelings. But I think that's part of what's happened to us collectively, where we’re powering through so much during the pandemic. Now, that's caught up to us a bit. 

Well, I was thinking about this this morning, and I can affirm that lament is in the Bible. I can affirm that I've seen it done well. But I still feel this tension, because Scripture says count it all joy when you face trials of many kinds, and cast your cares on Him. These feel like they're in conflict, like how do we be joyful in sorrow? How do we trust God and be in deep valleys? How can those realities align?

Mark: Yeah, I mean, you can't argue with the fact that Scripture says rejoice always. But that's true, like Christians should rejoice. That's not my question. My question is, how do you get there? I think that's part of the challenge. We have not served people who are grieving by simply telling them, “Hey, trust the Lord. All things work together for good, keep rejoicing. That's all true, but the pathway to get there, we just have not well defined that. That's what lament does. 

So, it's processed language designed to acknowledge this is really hard, and God is good. Your sorrow is really significant. But yet, there's going to come a day when you will be able to rejoice. 

And so, lament is the language that moves us from where we are to where we need to be. It moves us from a moment where we wonder, “Is God good?” Yes, He is. “Can I rejoice?” Yes, I can. And lament is the bridge that helps bring that reality into the forefront of our lives.

Erin: Yeah, I don't think we're comfortable with our own lament. I think we're maybe even more uncomfortable when someone else is lamenting. It's kind of a running joke at my house that my boys could have a bone sticking out of their body and I would say, “You're fine; you're fine.” Which I have done on multiple occasions, though not when there was a bone sticking out. But I think it's something we want to fast track, like, okay, feel sad at the funeral. And then we want you to move past it. How do we know when we're stuck in lament? Or if it's something that we need to continue to experience?

Mark: Well, that's a challenging question, because it's so individually based. Depending upon the situation that we're dealing with, or the sorrow that someone's walking through, our assessment of where we are in the journey is often inaccurate. We just don't know where we are. All that we know is, today's a hard day. 

I think that needs to be okay. We're able to use lament as a language that every day when we're sorrowing or when we're struggling or grieving helps to move us one step closer in the process of recovery and trusting the Lord. So rather than thinking about, “I don't want to have to lament again over this,” we need rather to have the resources of lament to know that when those strong emotions come, or when some triggering incident happens, or when something else comes up that reminds us how sad we are, that we can use this language to talk to God about it. 

So, the biggest thing I would just encourage your listeners to embrace is this: Whatever you do, however hard the pain is, don't give God the silent treatment. Don't stop praying. Keep talking to Him about your messy emotions and your struggles. That's a gift that God has given us in the language of lament.

Erin: It's so good. One of those sweet buddies just found his way into the Grounded studio. Want to say hi, Ezra, to Pastor Mark?

Erza: Hi.

Mark: Hi Ezra. Good morning.

Erin: Would you pray for us this morning and just model lament for us in your prayer?

Mark: Happy to.

Oh Lord, there are times like the psalmist says that we would like to run away to have wings like a dove to fly away and be at rest, to wander far away to lodge in the wilderness. God, there are times when we're just so tired of the grief and the sorrow and the pain. We see things on the news and it's just overwhelming. We wonder, God, how to handle such evil events and such broken moments. We know You're good, but Lord, our world is broken. It seems as though the devil is winning. 

But God, here's what we know. We know that Jesus is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. We know that You're alive. We know that You're victorious. We know that You're coming again. And so, we pray that You help us to count it all joy when we encounter various trials and tribulations. Lord, we ask You to be near and present to us. We pray You give us eyes to see things that we can't see in our own strength. 

And God, today we choose to trust You even though the world is broken and our hearts ache. We choose to believe that You are good, that You have purposes that one day will be known and understood. And until that day, God as we cry, as we lament, as we mourn, we choose to trust in You. We believe, we believe, we believe that You are good. And so, we rest in that today. And we pray this in Jesus’ name, amen.

Erin: Man, I felt my shoulders dropped during that prayer. I didn't even know they were raised up in tension. Thank you for modeling that. Mark, you've got a new resource to show us practically how to lament. Tell us the title and where to find it.

Mark: Yeah, so it's called The Dark Clouds: Deep Mercy Devotional Journal. The first book, the trade book, helped us understand what lament is and discover it. Then after readers reached out and said, “Hey, how do I make this work?” Like in other areas of my life, we produced a journal that walks through 15 different laments with a space to study the lament on your own, wright a lament prayer, ask yourself or in a group some questions. It's designed to help move from discovering lament to actually applying lament. Because once you discover this language, you realize how helpful it can be in a lot of other spaces. Once lament finds you, you see it as a really helpful biblical resource. And so, the journal is designed to just try and help folks take some next steps in that way.

Erin: Well, I need it. Thank you for being with us. You're welcome on Grounded anytime.

Mark: Thanks for having me on. Erin. 

Erin: Portia.

Portia: What a blessing Erin, what a blessing. You know, I kind of feel like you. I have that permission slip now to be okay with lamenting and wailing. 

Erin: I think I've always thought it was weak evidence of a weak faith, and we're learning something different. It's so helpful.

Portia: Absolutely. Absolutely. In fact, it's time for the wailing women to come forward. That's what the President of Revive Our Hearts says—Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. You know, it's actually what God says in the book of Jeremiah. Let's check out this short clip.

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: I don't think we will ever know what it is God could do in our day if we don't stop what we're doing, and start getting on our knees and calling out to the Lord, together, to intervene. Jeremiah chapter 9, at a time when Israel was in great distress, the Scripture says: “This is what the LORD Almighty says, ‘Consider now! Call for the wailing women to come. Send for the most skillful of them. Let them come quickly and wail over us.’” These, of course, are mourners. They’re saying “there's been a death. There's death in the streets, call for these wailing morning women to come.” “‘Let them come quickly and wail over us till our eyes overflow with tears and water streams from our eyelids.’”

And that is exactly what we're planning to do, to cry out. Call for the wailing women to come. It's time for us to stop wailing at each other, saying, “Oh, isn't this awful?” Wringing our hands, saying “this is so awful. What do you think? Who's gonna do this? And who's gonna do that?” Stop wringing our hands, get on our knees, join our hands together, and cry out to the Lord God.

Erin: Well, before we say goodbye, we always want to put some tools at your fingertips to help you process through and put into practice the things we talk about in each episode. Today, we've got a Revive Our Hearts podcast episode to recommend. It's about learning the language of biblical lament. You'll hear more from Mark and his wife, Sarah, about their journey through lament. We will drop the link to make it easy to find. We're also going to drop the link to Mark's book Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy. Can I say that this book is one way you can really serve your hurting friends? 

Well, not all of us are in a season of lament right now. We don't want to communicate that everybody is always in the valley. The Lord gives us mountaintop experiences in times of great joy. But if you do know someone, and I think we probably all know someone who is grieving a death, or an illness, or a disappointment, this book would be a great thing for you to write a little note in the front of and pass it on to. Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy. Again, we're going to drop the link.

Dannah: Well, Erin, I gotta tell you that we have struck a nerve today. I've been watching the YouTube comments and the Facebook comments, just kind of taking inventory. One of the things that really stuck out is something I mentioned and something you and Mark mentioned. Our readers, one of our readers, or one of our viewers called it “in the past, I've been shamed for grief and lament. I've been pushed past it.” And that comment resonated over and over again. 

I think one of our marching orders from today is not only to enter into lament, when God calls us to it, but to sit with those who are in the lamenting process, without disruption. If we want to change that, we have got to be the first ones to say, “okay, I'm not going to interrupt you and try to say things that make you feel better. I'm going to hold your grief with you up to God.” So that's a challenge for us today. 

Also, so many of our listeners are saying, “yeah, it's been the past two years, all the headlines, but there are some things happening closer to home.” Can I just read two comments that I think really encapsulate the way we need to pray for one another? One is from AME. Lots of viewers are praying for this young woman or, well, I don't know how old she is. But she says “I'm lamenting my mom's diagnosis and progression of dementia and my son's gender questioning. Lots of loss, but gaining more focus on the steadfastness of Christ.” So, pray for that sweet viewer. 

Also, Cindy Anderson, she's like a household name in the Davis home, in the Collins home, and the Gresh home.

Erin: She's been one of our one of our people. 

Dannah: She’s a special one. So, hello, Cindy. She has shared frequently about her husband's cancer journey. Many of our episodes have ministered to her as she has been his caregiver. And she shared on the Facebook group that her husband went home recently. She wrote this: “My wonderful godly husband went home to Jesus. My heart is broken. But he is healed and whole, and I am thankful.” We love you, Cindy. 

Erin: We do love you, and this is us sitting with you, in your lament. As you were talking, Dannah, I think it is actually a distinct Christian virtue that we don't have to race through our sorrow because we have true hope—whereas those who don't have Jesus, don't have the Holy Spirit, all they know is “I don't want to feel this pain. There's nothing beyond it.” One way we can really demonstrate hope is to sit in that tension because we know a day is coming when Jesus is going to make all things new. So, thanks for sharing your suffering with us, Cindy. You're definitely in our hearts. 

We just have great episode after great episode lined up for you, and the next episode is dedicated to honoring godly men. That's really important because we live in a culture that is very, very quick to apply the label “toxic” in front of, anytime, masculinity—manhood—is addressed, and we've got some good men to celebrate. We invite you to that celebration. We're going to be joined by Nancy's good man, Robert Wolgemuth. You don't want to miss it. Let's wake up with hope, together, next week Grounded.

Dannah: Grounded audio is powered by Skype. Grounded is a production of Revive Our Hearts, calling women to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ

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