When Forgiveness Feels Impossible, with Carrie Robinson and Morgan Hynds

You've tried to forgive them, but the anger keeps coming back. Find hope for the deepest hurts in this week's episode of Grounded with Carrie Robinson and Morgan Hynds.

Episode Notes

Bible donations for the teenagers of Uvalde

30-Day Choosing Forgiveness Challenge

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Erin Davis: Well, welcome back to Grounded friend. I'm Erin Davis.

Dannah Gresh: And I'm Dannah Gresh. Friends, you know that a lot has happened since we last gathered together. Friday was an historic day. 

Erin: It really was. 

Dannah: So, before we jump into our topic for today, I want to invite Robyn McKelvey to join us. We wanted to start with prayer today. Friday, Bob and I were driving down the highway. We were going to be driving to a wedding near Washington, D.C. when we heard the news that Roe vs. Wade had been overturned. 

Well, we drove straight to the Supreme Court steps. It was clear to see there that there were people who were quietly praising the Lord, and there were people who were devastated. I don't know what you've done since you heard the news. I have quietly rejoiced before the Lord. That was an easy thing for me to do, because over the weekend, I welcomed my third grandbaby into the world. As I touched her, I saw the preciousness of life as you can only see when it first arrives. 

But I wonder, have you prayed? I myself haven't done that corporately. I've done a lot of it quietly. But I haven't done it corporately. We want to encourage you. Would you drop to your knees right now? Would you remove all the distractions that might be around you? If you're easily distracted, maybe you just want to join us in prayer by typing your prayer in the comments. But I know that no matter where you fall on this issue, if you're a woman who loves the Lord, you know, the first thing we do is we pray. 

So I'm gonna pray and Robyn's gonna pray and Erin's going to pray. We're just going to petition heaven to do what I believe it's been doing, ruling. Ruling and reigning over the affairs of man. 

Join with me. Father God, I thank You for something that I couldn't have imagined happening in my lifetime happening on Friday. I rejoice, Lord. I praise You. I thank You, Lord, that You are positioning us to honor life, protect life, and declare with You that it is beautiful. But hearts are broken. Hearts are grieving. We need You Lord to enter into this mess. Guide every word that we speak to each other. May they be words of truth, spoken in kindness. 

I pray Father that You would put kindness on the tongue of every believing woman and man, every woman and man whose spirit is filled with the Spirit of the Living God. Would You, Lord Jesus, help us to have power in our words, because You're guiding them. We need that, Lord, as we rejoice, we need that as we celebrate. 

And Father God, we need that as we grieve the division in our country. Would You be with us at this critical time? I ask this in the precious name of Jesus Christ.

Robyn McKelvy: Thank you so much for You continuing to do what only You can do. And, Lord, I thank You for all the pastors over this country that stood in the pulpit yesterday and shared with their congregation how we must respond as believers to this news. 

So, Father, yes we rejoice. I'm just gonna read what my pastor shared. What we must rejoice in the fact that many children will potentially be saved and born into this world where they can image and know God. We rejoice with the prospect of the unborn being protected, and live in the womb being valued. But we rejoice in the day when the voiceless are given a voice and a chance to live. We rejoice because we know how you see and value the unborn life. Because you said it is your word in Psalm 139:14–16, 

I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.

Lord, You saw everyday our form when we hadn't been born on this side. So, Father, we also in our rejoicing as believers, we must repent. And what my pastor who happens to be my husband asked us to do was repent of our lack of God-centeredness and our loss of identity in Christ. We must repent of our worldliness and being distracted by this world. Instead of discipling the nations of this world, we must repent of our trust in mankind and our lack of trust in the Creator of mankind. And Father, we must repent of the silence When injustice is reigning. Lord, more than anything we must repent as God's people of our lack of unity within the body of Christ, we must repent. Lord, teach us how to do that, so that you reign and we represent You with all of our beings. In Jesus’ name, amen.

Erin: Amen. Love that rhythm Robyn of rejoice and repent. If you're watching this live, I'm going to ask you to do something that might feel a little strange. I was in a room full of about 60 women at the Revive Our Hearts headquarter when the news broke. Many dropped to their knees right there, fell right onto their knees. Many started weeping, but many of us put our hands straight up in the air, thanking the Lord that He has done something that some of us, me included, didn't have the faith He could or would do. So, if you're watching. Let me encourage you to put your hands right in the air right where you are. We can't see you but you can see us and join me as we just keep praying for another minute or two.

Jesus, I know that if You were walking the earth in 2022, like you did 2000 years ago, You would be unflinchingly pro-life. I know that from Your Word, because the reason You came, the reason that You sacrificed Your own life was that we might experience life and life to the full. So, we know You are a pro-life God. But I also know that You would lead with compassion, that You would see the women who have already made the choice to abort their babies, and that You would have compassion towards them for the ache of being a mother with empty arms. You would see those who are so angry today because they feel like this is a right that has been stripped from them. Be compassionate towards them for putting their hope in the wrong basket. The wrong source of hope.

Lord, so I want to just model that. We see that we as Your Church haven't done this perfectly. But we do want to model what I believe is Your position in the Word of being pro-life. It's Your desire that none should perish. So, it's our desire that none should perish, Lord. 

But when You look out at humanity today, You see what You've always seen, that we are harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. So, Lord, we don't want laws to be overturned. We don't want court decisions to be overturned. We don't want the legalization or the illegal realization of something more than we want revival. We want to see it. We want to see it in our day. We don't want people's hearts to be changed on the issues. We want people's hearts to be changed in who they worship and adore. You are worthy. So, we pray that You would do that. 

You said You'll do exceedingly and abundantly more than we ask or think. We ask and thank You for widespread worldwide, global, true revival. Do more than that, Lord. Today, I pray for my sisters around the world who are watching this and listening to this, by the power of Your Holy Spirit, press us into prayer in new ways that we might be salt and light. And what we can now see is a very dark world. We'd love You. It's in Your holy, holy, holy name I pray, amen. 

Erin: Well, thanks for joining us to pray. Robyn, your husband's words are encouraging as are yours. You're gonna stick around. We're gonna hear more from Robyn soon. We had a really special episode already lined up for today. And we've, of course, been messaging all weekend long. What do we do? How do we respond? I felt really strongly that what we already were planning is the right direction to go. 

So, I want you to imagine sitting in a courtroom with the man who murdered your loved one. Unthinkable I know, but try to let your mind go there. And then I want you to imagine hearing that man say this, “I hope you go to hell.” Could you forgive him? Well, that's what today's guest, Carrie Robinson, faced. And this is heavy. It already started out heavy. It's gonna stay heavy. A heavy episode, but I believe it's going to be really powerful. I'm glad you're here.

Dannah: I am too. You know, Erin, I think this topic of forgiveness is very appropriate for today. Just last month I read an article that said America has a forgiveness problem. Because of all the conflict and opinions that we've been navigating these past two years, we've just dumped a fuel fire on that. And again, we are rejoicing, we celebrate that life is being protected through this decision. But we also can't ignore that there are a lot of opinions about it. There are a lot of conversations to navigate that are going to require forgiveness. How do we forgive what we can't forget. That might just be words that are spoken. A lot of times, that's what's at the heart of what we need to forgive? 

Well, we've got two very brave guests who are going to point us to God's Word for some very practical answers concerning our very own challenges to forgive. I think as we hear their stories, our own stories, we'll find tools for our toolbox. They both have really especially difficult stories to tell that include gun violence.

In fact, one of our guests is joining us from Uvalde, Texas, where residents are recovering from the deadliest school shooting since Sandy Hook. I need you to brace yourself. You need to be emotionally and spiritually prepared for the stories you're about to hear. You may want to occupy younger eyes and ears elsewhere while you're listening today. 

Erin: We always encourage you to share Grounded. You are our distribution method. But today I'm gonna say something that I've never ever said on Grounded before. It's not something I plan to say again anytime soon. I want every single one of you who is watching this broadcast or listening to the podcast to find someone to share it with. Yes, every single one of you. And that's tens of 1000s of you. The reason I'm saying that is not just because I want a lot of people watching and listening to Grounded, of course I do. But it's because I believe that what we are going to hear together this morning is that important, that every one of you knows somebody who needs to hear it. So, find somebody. Hit that share button. The world needs the message we're about to hear.

Dannah: That's right. You know, Erin, we also need some good news every morning. So, do you have some for us?

Erin: I do have some really good news this morning. Let me ask you a question first, and you are welcome to engage with us in the chat. We love hearing from you in that way or in the comments. Here's the question: Where were you when you learned that another mass shooting had occurred at a school? What did you feel when you discover that nineteen children and two adults had been murdered inside their classroom? 

I happened to have a child the age of those students who were murdered. It was unthinkable to me that I might drop that sweet boy off at school only to never see him again after he had departed this life. So, I know where I was. I know where our first guest Morgan was. She was in Uvalde, a town where that horrific event occurred. She reached out to me, and I'm so excited to have this conversation with her. Welcome to Grounded Morgan.

Morgan Hynds: Thank you for having me.

Erin: Most of us had never heard of Ulvade, Texas until it was all over the news in a way I'm sure Ulvade already doesn't want to be known. So, give us a glimpse, before this happened before this mass shooting inside the elementary school, what kind of community is Uvalde?

Morgan: So, it's a small, big town. I say that I'm from an hour south of here. It's surrounded by a bunch of little, south Texas towns. It's got the Walmart, so people, from all around come here to shop. We have a river, the Frio River, that's a north of here. People come in the summer to vacation. It was a tight knit community. Everybody knows everybody. There's one or two degrees of separation where you know someone. So we were just a small town that was finishing up the school year, finishing Little League, and getting ready for summer.

Erin: I got a lump in my throat because I live in a town like that. I really can't imagine what happened next. I'm sure your response as a resident . . . Maybe heard it in a different way than we did. But I'm sure your response was the same as the rest of us. I remember feeling shocked. I remember feeling a lot of fear. My own kids were at school. My response was just to go get them and bring them home and never send them to school again. And my response was anger. Anger was a pretty quick response. But you pretty quickly shifted to prayer. I want to hear about what was going on in your heart. What prompted you to start praying so earnestly?

Morgan: Well, because we're such a small town and I'm a border patrol agent’s wife, we have our own kind of communication system. And so, as I was getting text messages and updates, I thought there's no way . . . Pretty quickly I hit the floor with my kids. I said, we're going to pray for our community. Because as we were getting these updates, I thought there's just no way something this evil . . .

We just started praying as details emerged the next day and the next day. Some other border agents’ wives just decided that we needed to respond in a way that would honor Christ. And so, we had the idea of giving out Bibles. We started just texting out to our family, our friends, our community, asking for Bible donations. And then we thought, Let's think bigger. And so, we talked to the makers of the Beginner's Bible, and the Minnow Bible, which are two fantastic Bibles for kids. They were very gracious in donating. Then we realized we had missed this whole population of teens, and the shooter had been a teen who desperately needed Jesus. 

Erin: Yeah. 

Morgan: And that was the population that we needed to hit. We started trying to reach out to people that could help us donate teen Bibles. And that's how I got . . .

Erin: I don't want to rush past. I mean, I'm trying to imagine getting a text in my community. And you say there's one or two degrees of separation. We look at those 21 names, and we don't know them. We have no connection to them. That doesn't mean our hearts are not stirred. But those are children that you knew that you'd seen at soccer games and little league games, whose parents you might go to church with. I want us to stop for a second. The grief of it sat in front of you at church who then had to bury their babies.

Morgan: Yeah, the first picture of a little girl, McKenna. The parents that night before couldn't find her. They were hoping she had, you know run, because kids ran. They ran to nursing homes and a funeral home and homes around the school. She was the first picture to come out. And I said, “McKenna sits in front of us at church.” That's how we know McKenna. Then we woke up the next morning and realized one of the little boy's brothers played football with my son, one of the ladies worked out at my gym. One of the little girl's parents and grandparents go to my gym. One of the little girls’ dads sold me my car, there were just all these connections. 

My son goes to school in a neighboring school district. So as I was getting those texts, one of the biggest things that I was thankful for was that I could see him, because I couldn't imagine being a parent and not knowing where my kid was at that time. 

Erin: Yeah, I can't imagine it either. As you and your friends have walked out this mission that's come from the Lord to hand out Bibles to a grieving community, what have you seen Him do?

Morgan: So, our community, people from all over the country have been so gracious and giving to our community. People have donated so much money and so many things. We know that things and money are not going to fill that void, only Jesus will. And so, our city square has really become the center of the memorial, and you'll see it on the news. We went and sat and people have come up to us and taken the Bibles and just said, “This is what we need in our country. We need Jesus back. We need Jesus back in our schools, so things like this wouldn't happen. If more people knew Jesus.”

Erin: That’s right. Well, that's not what we're gonna see on the news. We're not gonna see you handing out Bibles. Probably we're not gonna see people coming to your town square desperate for something that can really give them hope and life. But you are our good news, because you're doing it. Your friends are putting into the hands of what must be brokenhearted people. I think many of us have a feeling of hopelessness. We want to be the hands and feet of Jesus to those who are hurting, but we don't know how. You're doing it. I'm so grateful that you're doing it. How can we as a Grounded family, how can we help you in this mission of putting Bibles into the hands of people in Uvalde?

Morgan: I sent your team a list of teen Bibles just on Amazon that if people feel led to donate, we will get them into hands of teens. We've partnered with Uvalde PTO. And so, we know that these Bibles are going to go to kids, junior high and high school level. And that link will be on your website. You can donate a Bible to First Baptist Church, Uvalde if you'd rather send it there. But we would just love if you feel led to send Bibles to Uvalde so they can get in the hands of these teenagers and preteens and kids who need Jesus desperately that are really overlooked. You know, we focused on kids’ elementary school age. But the kids that need Jesus and that are at such a pivotal age are also these preteens and these teenagers who are growing up in a world that is not revolved around Jesus as it should. 

Erin:Amen. All right, Grounded, you’ve got some marching orders there. You can be our good news. You can give Bibles to this community that is very broken today and will continue. Your community is going to be changed forever. This is not a need for just this week, just this month, just this summer. People are always going to need Jesus. So, I would encourage you, we're going to drop the link for how to give Bibles and hear what she's saying. They specifically want Bibles for teenagers who must be grieving. 

Well, Morgan, you’re our good news. I know that what's happening in your community is so hard and so sad. You put some skin on it for us, but you're responding with the hope of Jesus. So, bless you.

Morgan: Thank you so much, Erin. I appreciate it. 

Erin: Dannah. 

Dannah: Thank you. Thank you, Erin. And thank you, Morgan. We are praying for you. Well, we promised you today would be a heavy program, and it is. We're going to continue getting grounded with God's people. We're going to hear another really hard story. Carrie Robinson is a wife and a mom. She also serves as a faculty advisor at Dallas Theological Seminary. She and her husband have spent the last 13 years as missionaries in Ireland before they came stateside to serve the Lord here. Good morning. Carrie, thanks for being with us today.

Carrie Robinson: Good morning, Dannah.

Dannah: Carrie, there was a day that changed your family's life forever. Would you tell us about that?

Carrie: Yeah, I'm sure Morgan would resonate with this. You know, we see some of these things on the news sometimes. We grieve for people that we don't know. But yet, I think either consciously or subconsciously, we don't think things like that can actually happen to us.

And for my family, tragically, one day, we were that awful headline. My grandparents had been in a homeowner's association meeting, one they've been in many times before. Only this time, they had a very tragic ending. There was a very disgruntled member of that community, who, through a series of events, decided that he was going to kill everyone at the meeting that day. And he drove up with a U-Haul full of weapons and ammunition and walked into the back of the meeting hall and opened fire.

My grandfather was on the board of the homeowner’s association. He was sitting up on stage and two people down from him was a woman, tragically, it was her first day there. She was killed instantly with the gunfire. The man sitting next to my grandfather was injured. And as my grandfather realized what was happening, he ducked to get out of the way. And doing that, the bullet that was intended for him actually straight into the crowd. And of all the people, it went to the back of my grandmother's chair. 

And so, as all the firings were going on, there was a very brave man sitting in the back of the room. He realized, “I think I can tackle this shooter before he can swing his weapon around and get me.” Thankfully, mercifully, he did that. People came to help them as well. The shooting stopped, but not before many were injured. But as soon as the shooting finished, my grandfather raced over to my grandmother and scooped her up in his arms. She said, “Do something, do something.” And he knew that there was nothing that could be done. And she died in his arms that day.

Dannah: So sorry. Wow. The possibility of him ducking and the bullet meant for him hitting her.

Carrie: And the guilt that came with that. Yes, yes.

Dannah: That's what I want to ask you about? How has your grandfather navigated through that?

Carrie: It kind of sent all of us on a journey that we weren't anticipating. Our world had been shattered into 1,000 pieces. How do you deal with a situation that's awful. My family was a Christian family, we knew the things that we should do. We knew we should forgive, we knew we should let go of anger and go with the Bible when you're hurting. I think sometimes in the church, we're told that we should do things. And this was one that was beyond my capability. We just didn't know, I didn't know how do you forgive something that feels unforgivable? And how do you deal with hurt when it just is so intense? It feels like it could suffocate the life right out of you. We all went on and really wrestled in different ways on that journey.

Dannah: You know, you're verbalizing something that many of us have a hard time verbalizing. It might not be something as alarming and tragic and evil as what you had to navigate through. But it could be something like forgiving a husband who's been unfaithful or forgiving a child who has been a prodigal and has defamed your name and maybe your faith or forgiving a boss. You know, there's that point where you're like, “I can't do this. I don't know how to do this. Everybody's telling me I should, but I can't.” So, what advice do you have for them? How did you navigate what you yourself could not do?

Carrie: Sure. Yeah. What do you do when you know you should, because I can't? For me, the answer came in a very unexpected way, about two years after the event. We were sitting, as Erin mentioned, in a courtroom. During the trial, victims aren't allowed to talk to the perpetrator because it could influence the jury. And so, once the verdict was handed down, we had our chance to talk to the man who had killed our wife, mother, grandmother. My mom and her five siblings got up one by one and said, “I forgive you; I forgive you; I forgive you.” And in that moment I thought, “Yes, I do, too.” And then he had a chance to address the court. He got up and said, “I believe in God. I believe in heaven. And I believe I'm going to watch you all burn in hell.”

And what do you do with that? As I wrestled with that with the Lord, all my grief, all my anger came right back. And my offer forgiveness was just, you know, and I found myself saying to the Lord, “Lord, he doesn't deserve to be forgiven. He doesn't even want it.” And in that moment, later that night, in that still small voice that we hear as we listen to the Lord, as I battled with he doesn't deserve it; the Lord said to my heart, “Carrie, neither do you. You don't deserve to be forgiven?” And you know what He brought to my mind? Matthew 18, which is the two servants. And through that in the king's response, I realized, in this moment in history, I was the wicked servant. Was it going to forgive or was I not? 

Let me tell you a little as I walk you through this parable. So, in this parable Jesus tells, you may be familiar with it. There's two servants, and one of them owes a debt that he will never be able to pay. And the other servant owes a much smaller debt. To summarize, in the parable the king represents God. The servant comes to him who owe a lot fell on his knees before the king and says, “Be patient with me, and I'll pay you back everything.” And the servant’s master took pity on him and canceled the debt and let him go. 

As Jesus tells the story, this is a picture of us before the Lord. We owe a debt of sin that we would never be able to repay. And so, as Jesus tells the parable, now this servant has been forgiven. He goes to his fellow servant who owes him something, but obviously not the size of that first servant’s debt. And he goes to him and says, “Pay me everything that you owe me.”

His fellow servant did the same exact thing and said, “Be patient with me, and I'll pay you back.” But verse 30 says, “But he refused.” And what a challenge, as you're hearing the parable. I'm sure the original audience . . . Jesus sets it up where you kind of you expect . . . He's just been forgiven everything, of course he's going to forgive, but he doesn’t. He refuses. 

And this is what got me, verse 32. The master calls this first servant back and he says, “You wicked servant, I canceled this debt of yours because you begged me to? Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you?” 

And it clicked. God was asking me to manufacture something that I didn't have. I couldn't do it. But what He was asking me to do was to extend what He had given to me, to the person who had hurt me. And that's the same for everybody. Maybe some people listening, like you said, have had some awful things happen to them or spoken over them, and you think they don't deserve to be forgiven. As believers, we know that neither do we, but we have been. And God through His Holy Spirit is asking us to take what's been given to us and extend that. He's not asking us to do more than we could ever do.

Dannah: And so, did you forgive your grandmother's killer?

Carrie: I did. Do you know what I really did? I knew that I wanted to be free from the prison of sin that I could be trapped in. It's easy to think that if we withhold forgiveness that we are going to be the ones that are that are right or that are sparing ourselves, but do you know what that anger that builds up in you and the bitterness that that comes with unforgiving is? It's really more of a prison. Tragically, I watched my grandfather choose that path. Only the Lord knows his heart. I don't know that he ever did forgive. He was never the same again, the man that I knew. He chose to hold on to that bitterness. That's not what God wants for us. He wants to set us free from that prison of bitterness and anger He knows we don't need to be in. Forgiveness opens that door to actually release us from the pain that God wants to take for us.

Dannah: There's a beautiful peace in you. As you're describing your grandfather, I feel the torture that he faced. I've always realized that forgiveness is an act that I do for myself, it really is. It frees me. It doesn't free the person who's offended me. 

But in recent days, I've been starting to think, well, that's not the deepest understanding of forgiveness. The deepest understanding of forgiveness moves beyond me and myself to Christ and who He is. When I forgive, I am moving towards being more Christ-like. I am acting like an image bearer. And when I choose not to forgive, I am moving away from that Christ's likeness, and I am not being an image bearer. 

God wants each of us to move forward in our sanctification in becoming more like Him and forgiveness is a part of that. I see that in your life. 

Carrie: Yes. 

Dannah: There's a woman listening. She needs to forgive her brother for having different opinions about her about world events, because they've just gotten deeper, deeper into indifference. Or she needs to forgive a spouse who's hurt her deeply, or a boss who hasn't been fair, ethical. Where does she start? Give us the first step.

Carrie: Sure, I think the first step is just starting from the foot of the cross, where we all stand as sinners saved by grace. And we go back to that humble point where we realize God has forgiven us and we take that forgiveness and we extend it to those around us who have done things to us who don't deserve it. God doesn't ask us to forgive because the other person deserves it or because they're even repentant. That's just not in Scripture. As far as it depends on you, be at peace with everyone. That's our part. 

That's not up to the other person, this man never did ask to be forgiven. And that's hurtful, too. But that's not my job. That's the Lord's job. And so my job is to take that first step, and to ask for the Holy Spirit's help. Now, it's not easy, I'm not gonna say it's a decision I made once and it was done. That was a definite process for that healing to take place. 

But that was a decision I made once and then made it again. And again, to just keep extending kind of pictured it this way. You know, if we were standing in the desert dying of thirst, it's like God gave us a hose gushing with water that was never ever going to run out. This person next to us is also dying of thirst. Do we keep that water for ourselves? Or do we say, I'm going to share what God has given me? Not because I made this water for myself, but because I'm going to extend what God has given to me. I'm going to give that to you as well.

Dannah: Good picture. We never run out of our need of drinking from that hose. Carrie, thank you for being with us today. You have given my heart peace. 

Carrie: Well, God gives us hope, and that's worth sharing.

Dannah: Well, does forgiveness gets easier with practice, as Carrie just said. You have to keep choosing it over and over and over. Well, Gracia Burnham says yes. She would know; she and her husband were missionaries, taken captive by militant Muslims. She practiced forgiveness for what they took from her over and over and over. Here's a short clip of Erin interviewing Gracia here on Grounded.

Gracia Burnham: The more you do something, the better you become at it. It's the same thing with forgiveness. Our 17th gun battle in the jungle, Martin died. That's the one where I was wounded. But I was rescued in that gun battle. God taught me forgiveness. I knew that Jesus said, “Love your enemies. Do good to those who hate you, pray for those who use you.” 

And I would think, okay, these are my enemies. God said to love them. I'm going to love them. And then we would go through a village, and they would chop someone's head off. Well, no, they didn't deserve forgiveness. I'd be back in the bitterness pit or the feeling-sorry-for-me pit or the they-don't-deserve-forgiveness pit. 

I came to the end of myself. I asked God, “Would you put forgiveness in my heart? Would you put love in my heart for these guys, because I couldn't do it on my own.” I could for a few minutes, but that's it. God's faithful and that's what the Holy Spirit does in our lives. He changes us; He convicts us. He makes us new. There are so many things He does, and God did the work in me. That's all I can say. 

God changed my heart there in the jungle. He showed me their end. He showed me what they came from. I began learning their stories. Why were they in the Abu Sayyaf to begin with? He just gave us the love for them. I'm so thankful I've been able to work with some of them that I found in a prison in Manila. And the good part of the rest of the story is, so far, four of them have come to know Jesus in that prison. There's always the rest of the story. God takes us into things for a reason not to crush us, but so that we can learn to see His hand and learn to trust Him. He's doing a good work and His works good. It's always good.

Robyn: Well, wow, this segment is so rich, as we choose to forgive the unforgivable. What man says is unforgivable, it is not unforgivable, as you walk it out with the Lord. We realized that honor. There may be a lot of people that have chosen to have an abortion, and we want you to know that there is forgiveness to be found. I know the enemy would want you to walk out from here with guilt and with shame and embarrassment, but there is forgiveness to be found. 

So, we're asking that if this is you, would you go to the Lord? Would you ask God to forgive, hear what you have done? And then get up from there and go tell others. Because there are many that are still feeling like this: “I am in control of my own body.” And that's not how God sees it. God is the only one that gives life. And children deserve a chance to live as image bearers for God. Yes, a purpose for every life. 

So, if this is you, would you please seek forgiveness? Because God is the greatest forgiver so that you can leave and be what God needs you to be for this world that so needs for us to be salt and light.

I'm gonna go on and share what I feel like the Lord would have me to share. How did you choose to forgive the unforgivable? There's a Scripture that we read over and over. Sometimes we let it play off our lips. But Ephesians 4, verse 32, says this, “Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.” 

Sometimes when I read that, I'm like, Lord, does that mean everybody? Am I supposed to forgive everybody? And then it leads me to more questions. How do I practically walk out forgiving someone when I feel like they don't deserve to be forgiven? They have abused, they have molested, they have stolen, they have injured. Sometimes just like when Carrie was talking, they've taken something so precious from you, that you don't know how you ever get past it. It seems like an impossible task. 

But you cannot do it without living in the power of the Holy Spirit. Because this is what it would take. Living in the power of the Holy Spirit is what it would take for you to forgive an unforgivable act that's been perpetrated against you. 

Ray is on here a lot. He's my husband; he's also my pastor. But when Ray was a child, he was a victim of sexual abuse. When he was asked to pray for one of his abusers, after the abuser was diagnosed with cancer, Ray felt like the Lord was asking him, “Ray, will you forgive?” Ray said yes, and he prayed for this uncle, even though he had caused him enormous amounts of pain, and also the need for counseling as an adult. 

As the cancer progressed, his father then called him and asked him if he would call the hospital and pray with his uncle. Ray felt like the Lord was asking him to pray. Ray once again said yes. He made the call. Then the uncle passed away. You think it's over, he never asked for forgiveness. But we went to the uncle's funeral hand in hand. And at that funeral, we sat there, going through all of the turmoil that was in us. And an Auntie a couple of rows up turned around and said to Ray, “We want you to see.” And as Ray says, “When you go to a black funeral, the program is just a suggestion” because they are always adding to it. 

Anyway, they asked him to sing. He felt like God was saying, “Ray, would you forgive?” So, he said, yes. As he went up to the platform, he said, “What song can I sing for this man that has hurt me in such a way that is affected me my entire life?”

And he began singing this song, it's a hymn. And the verse in the chorus goes like this: 

Why should I feel discouraged? Why should the shadows come?
Why should my heart feel lonely, and long for heaven and home?
When Jesus is my portion, a constant friend is.
He his eye is on the sparrow, and I know He watches me.

Ray said, “It was like something went away, because he could genuinely see, because he was happy. I think because, “I'm free. Because His eye on the sparrow, and I know He watches me.

So, at the funeral of his abuser, Ray realized that he had been set free. That little, small daily requests of the Lord asking Him to forgive has said him free. He was free from the lingering effects of this great scene. He was free to love the uncle, who never felt like he deserved love. He was free from the enemy, wanting him to believe that God was not for him. Forgiving the unforgivable is a daily process. It doesn't happen quickly. But it does happen in time. We want to give God the glory, because He is the one that sets free. If you're set free by Him, you are free indeed. 

Dannah: Amen. Thank you, Robyn. Wow, what a powerful program. I want to say to you, if you're listening and you need forgiveness, His eye is on you. His eye is on you. And whatever you need forgiveness from, start with Jesus. Just go to Him and say, “Father, I need forgiveness. I am the one that has done evil. I'm the one that has spoken against my brother or my sister or my father or my mother. I'm the one that has broken my husband's heart with my unfaithfulness. I'm the one that aborted my baby. Take that to Jesus. There is forgiveness for you. There is a fresh start. 

Friend, if God is stirring in your heart to walk out forgiveness, and I know that He is because I'm watching the comments as we broadcast live today. So many of you are saying things like, “I want to forgive. I just can't listen. Forgiveness is hard. It takes a lot of work.” And sometimes it takes a lot of time. 

So, if God is stirring your heart to walk in forgiveness, we have a tool to put in your hands. It's a brand-new 30-day challenge from Revive Our Hearts. The Choosing Forgiveness Challenge starts July 1. I want to invite you to join women from around the world who've taken the challenge and they're saying every day teaches about forgiveness. I'm going to help you take practical steps so that you can move away from bitterness. challenge in the comments right now we'll have it in the show notes. Don't wait, sign up, take the challenge. And I would encourage you to share it because, as I said, at the top of the program, America has a forgiveness problem. And I would suggest that probably the world does right now. You probably know some people who need freedom, because that's all of us.

Erin: I knew I knew we were in for a challenging program. And we were, “Yeah, more than I expected.” You guys are being so transparent right now in the chat. I want to honor some of that. Many of you are saying that you need to forgive, but you can't. It's that when your “should” turns in your “can't” (which Carrie said so beautifully). Let me encourage you not to let it turn into your “I won't.” That picture of Ray singing about his freedom at the funeral of his abuser will never leave me. That is only Jesus can do that. Do either of you just have some takeaway thoughts from your own hearts? 

Dannah: Yeah, I actually want to read one of these because I think it conveys the battle that so many are in. Darsha says, (I think I'm pronouncing that correctly), 

For me, I want to forgive but the thought of my loved one did to me was so wrong. They can't possibly love me. But they're still in my life. They're still my family. That's what makes me so mad. I give them coldness, because they made me look like a fool. I want to be free of the madness and realize they do love me. But my thoughts keep telling me they don't. 

Here's what I want to say to you. I think that verbalizes the battle, right? Each of us has to come to a place where we choose to say to our thoughts, “You are not the boss of me. My thoughts are not the boss of me.” I know that sounds so elementary. But we have to go to the Word and say whatever it says in the Bible. That's going to be my choice, “I'm going to follow. I'm going to let this be the authority in my life.” And that doesn't happen overnight.

So, give yourself some grace. It does happen with the choice to pursue forgiveness as you choose it over and over and over, as you heard it many times in the program today. So, make this the day when you say to your thoughts, “No, you're not the boss of me anymore.” And when they start to boss you around, get in the Word. That's why this 30-Day Forgiveness Challenge is so important. It helps us soak our mind in the truth of God's forgiveness each and every day for thirty days. You're gonna experience incredible break through as you do that.

Erin: You really are. I've said this before on Grounded, I'll reiterate it here. My pastor has said many times from the pulpit, and I'm sure Ray has said some version of this, Robyn. But he'll say, “Pray to want to.” Don't pray you can forgive if your heels are dug in. And you know, you can start with praying to want to, “Lord, I want to forgive.” It's that beautiful prayer of that father in Scripture, “I believe. Help my unbelief.” Help me want to is a beautiful place for all of us to start today. 

So, you're gonna want to chew on this episode. It's a big, ole, juicy steak. You're probably going to need to digest it for a while. But let me reiterate the need to share it, because there are women in your life who are in prison. They're in a prison without bars. And that prison is unforgiveness. So share it.

Hey, next Monday is (I can't even believe I'm saying this, this doesn't seem real), but next Monday is Independence Day here in America. It’s the Fourth of July. Because our team wants to be eating watermelon and barbecue and hotdogs and all that stuff, we're gonna re-air a favorite episode next week with Ruth Jo Simon's on spiritual formation. Thanks for being with us Robyn. You're always a joy. Let's wake up together next on Grounded. 

Dannah: Grounded audio is powered by Skype. Grounded is a production of Revive Our Hearts, calling women to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ. 

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