Where Is God When You Need Him?, with Susie Larson

Have you ever wondered, “Where is God when I need Him most?” Guest Susie Larson has. In this episode of Grounded, Susie shares about times when she felt far from God and the lessons she learned in the silence. If you’ve ever felt forgotten by Him, this episode will anchor you in truth from the Bible and help you to demystify the presence of God. 

Connect with Susie

Instagram: @susielarsonauthor
Twitter: @SusieLarson
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/susielarsonauthor
Website: https://www.susielarson.com/

Episode Notes

• Closer Than Your Next Breath book by Susie Larson: https://www.thomasnelson.com/p/closer-than-your-next-breath
• Born a Child and Yet a King Advent Devotional and Cards: https://www.reviveourhearts.com/donate/advent-2023/
• Revive Our Hearts Advent Book Club: https://www.facebook.com/groups/rohadventbookclub
• The Power of Words digital booklet: https://www.reviveourhearts.com/giveaway/stay-grounded/

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Dannah Gresh: Right now, right this very moment, you are in the presence of God. Does it feel like it? I'm Dannah Gresh, and this is Grounded. 

Erin Davis: Oh, how’s that for a question to start your day? I'm Erin Davis, and I have a question to follow your question. Dannah, is God's presence something we feel?

Maybe as Dannah asked that question—are you in the presence of God?—you started to poke around in your own heart and thought, Do I feel like I'm in God's presence? 

Today’s guest has a lot of useful things to share about feeling God when you're wondering, Where is He when I need Him the most?

Portia Collins: Well, I'm Portia Collins. And guess what? We have best-selling author and podcast host Susie Larson, and she is back with us in the Grounded studio this morning.

Erin: I want to whoop and cheer because I know how solid she is. 

Portia: I know. I'm having to control my hands because I don't want to pop in my mic. But I am super excited. I’ve got my listening ears on and my pen and my paper ready, because she is here to help us demystify the presence of God. I am ready for it. 

Erin: That’s a tall order—demystify the presence of God—and I'm with you, I'm also ready for it. So excited. 

Dannah: I am too. You know, you've probably had those moments where you really, really do feel the presence of the Lord, right?

Erin: Definitely.

Dannah: I always think of taste and see that the Lord is good when I find those moments. But they are few and far between, right? 

Erin: Yeah, they can be, and then that can be confusing, because once you've experienced the presence of God, you don't ever want to be outside of it. It can be confusing when it feels like you haven't had that experience in a while.

Dannah: And it does seem sometimes, like the times you feel Him the least, are when you absolutely need them the most. 

Erin: That’s true. 

Dannah: It’s like, “Are You there God? Are You at work? What are You doing?” 

Erin: That is so true. 

Dannah: So, if you have those experiences, as we have had those experiences, you're in the right place today, don't go anywhere. All, I am fangirling all over Susie Larson. She is one of my favorites. I follow her on social media just to get a taste of her as often as I can. But first, Portia, do you have any good news for us today?

12:27 - Good News (with Portia)

Portia: Oh, I've got some great news today. I am so excited to share it. So, if a picture is worth a thousand words, then these pictures you've got to see. They say it all. 

This past week I had the pleasure of being at our International Ministry Center with our very own Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, who we know is the founder of Revive Our Hearts. This past week she did a recording, the first teaching in her new studio in what we like to affectionately call “Studio N.” Check out those pictures. It is a brand-new studio in Nancy's home.

I was there for that maiden voyage. I cannot tell you how excited I was and how overjoyed I was, and also how God's presence was definitely with us. 

Here are a few reasons why this new studio is such good news. The first thing is it was completely donor funded. Since COVID, Nancy has been mostly recording audio in a makeshift studio in her basement. This required technical setup each time and a lot of manpower that we don't see. But it's happening every time she was recording. 

And so, generous friends of the ministry saw the need, and they stepped up to meet it. We have such amazing partners at Revive Our Hearts. I say, “Thank you, thank you to all of our partners.” These partners wanted to see women like you thrive in Christ. 

And so, this new studio actually has a permanent setup now. It has better quality audio as well as video capacity. I was able to actually witness her doing video recording for the first time in this studio. It was absolutely wonderful. This also provides flexibility for Nancy to capture various kinds of content for Revive Our Hearts at any time of the day or night. 

And so, we all know how much we love flexibility. I'm glad that she can be able to have that now in her home. And so, the Grounded tech team played a huge part in building and setting up this studio. We are so proud of them. Look, check them out. That is Tom. We love Tom. You guys don't get to hear him much, but he's great. We love all of our tech team. Check them out. Those are the guys, and they are awesome. 

Alright. Here's the third reason why this studio is so important. From this studio Nancy will soon record (get this hold your breath) 260 new teaching programs. It's going to take our listeners on a year long journey through the entire Bible. 

And so you heard it here first, Grounded sisters. You got the scoop today. This is a massive undertaking for Nancy and our ministry. But we are praying that God will use it to draw tens of thousands of women around the world to His Word. 

And so, Studio N just one piece of the puzzle that makes this dream possible. And after months of dreaming and planning and building and praying, Studio N is now a place where God's Word can be sent out around the world. And you know what? We think that's some great news. 

Dannah: That is great news. I'm so excited about it. Thanks, Portia. It's time for us to get grounded with God's people. Susie Larson is with us. She's a best-selling author and national speaker and the host of the Susie Larson Live podcast. I absolutely love her Facebook daily blessings which reach over half a million people. I met her many years ago and just felt like I was spending time with someone who just spent time with Jesus. I just wanted to soak it in. Well, friend, get ready to soak because Susie's just written a new book titled Closer Than Your Next Breath. She's here to talk about it. Hello Susie, good morning.

16:51 - Grounded with God's People (Susie Larson)

Susie Larson: So great to be with you. Dannah, great to see your darling face again.

Dannah: Well, let's start with this, my friend. Tell me about a time when you encountered the sweet presence of God.

Susie: Wow, that's such a great question. When I've noticed as I look in Scripture in my own story and interview lots of people, it seems God breaks in at times when we need either a confirmation of our identity or a faith of greater knowing on a deeper level who He. It's a course correction sometimes.

And this particular time, I was . . . My backstory was a young mom on six months of bed rest with our third son. I was led up one day to meet my old college roommates. My doctors are like, “Let's give this a shot to see if you can be up and around.” Unknowingly, that day I was bit by a deer tick and contracted Lyme disease. So I went back to bed that night and within two weeks of that outing, my face started to go numb and neurological fireworks are going off in my body. I still had three months left of this bedrest and had used up all my friend favors as well. Six months of bedrest with a one and a three-year-old is a lot for friends to carry. 

Dannah: Yeah.

Susie: So it was confronting a lot of my insecurities. Prior to that crisis, I was an enthusiastic follower of Christ. I say this about a lot of people, and I think it's true. I knew I was saved, but I didn't know I was loved. 

And so prior to that crisis, I was serving like on five committees at church (and nothing wrong with committees). But I do think that's a place for a lot of women to hide and strive to try to prove their worth and earn something that Jesus has already paid for. 

So, to go to bed for that long and have all these insecurities and some trauma from my past kind of surface was very unnerving. So, to have that overlapping crisis with this health challenge was really significant. 

After I delivered our son, I had three little boys and the neurological symptoms were firing on all cylinders. They ruled out a brain tumor and MS. I don't know if at this point we knew it was Lyme disease; it was a year later, we found out it was Lyme. And I will say three decades later, there's not a day that goes by that I don't deal with neurological symptoms. But in the worst part of it, it felt like God lost my address. 

And as you said in the intro, it's like when you need Him the most you feel Him the least and the contrast of my life with my friends who had health and wealth we had neither. And I was still new enough in my faith that I did God change his mind about me. Did He lose my address? Is he confusing me with Susie in Cincinnati? Like what? What where are You God? 

It was in the middle of the night . . . Every night I begged God to heal me, please heal me. Well, this particular night I said, “If not for me, for my sons would you heal me?” And there is a little accusation in there saying, “You don't care enough about me.” Will You do it for my sons? But I honestly don't know if I expected a response, because every night it felt like my prayers were bouncing off the ceiling. 

And the Lord thundered in my heart. I knew this was the Lord because I wasn't smart enough to come up with this. But He whispered to my spirit. “If I healed you, would you praise me?” 

And I said, “Well, You wouldn't be able to shut me up. I would praise You till the cows come home.” 

And He said, “Why is that? Is it because I gave My One and only Son to die for you so that your eternity could be secure? Or just because you got your way?”

And in a moment, my life's reel paths before my eyes. I realized so much of my relationship with God as even a young Christian was very transactional. I rolled out of bed and I went face down. I literally lamented and repented to the depths of my soul. I say that night He was my Savior, and He became my Lord. 

Dannah, if there's time, I would love to share with you just a poem that came out of that time that really set me right on that I will follow God on His terms not mine. Do you have a moment for me to share that?

Dannah: Oh please, absolutely. I’d love to hear it.

Susie: I'm going to do this from memory, so I'm praying that I can remember, but it goes like this. 

I've walked through many storms, my prayers were filled with tears.
The enemy was so big, confirming all my fears. 

To a distinct God I would ever cry, 
Just wanting an answer always asking why. 

You get heard, I not from Him, nor His angels singing,
‘Twas all that I could do this road to keep on clinging.

Then suddenly, one night, as I beckoned Him to be so real, 
That I could feel him He finally spoke to me.

Said He, “My daughter, Susie, I love you with my life.
No more would I ever hurt you than be the cause of your strife.

You see, it's not My hands that's delivered all this pain.
But it's true My hand is there to hold yours in the rain.

It's something how men see Me according to their need,
Instead of praise and faith, they ask and beg and plead.

But I am a God who doesn't change the times, nor change I with the season.
I don't have to explain Myself nor give you detailed reason.

I've given all that I could give when I gave to you, My Son,
I emptied out Myself for you as if you were the only one.

What I do for you I do because I love you so.
What I allow in you, I allow because I want you to grow.

It's in faith, praise, and trust that you will find your strong
When demands are replaced by a faith-filled praise song.

It is there you'll find peace, where there once was strife, 
And it'll be just enough to have Me in your life.” 

And I will say as a young believer, I learned the fear of God that night. Dannah, I mean, I really did not have the terror kind of an abusive father that you can't trust, but a reverence before God. I literally said, and this was my honest prayer, “If You never heal me, I will hate it. I hate this disease. It's gut wrenching. It's scary. It's terrifying. But where else am I gonna go? I'm gonna follow You on Your terms and not mine.” 

But that opened me up as I surrendered all put it all on the altar to a level of intimacy with God that I never could have found if I kept my relationship with Him transactional.

Dannah: Wow, that's so powerful Susie, what would you say to a woman who is saying, “Oh, yeah, that's stepping on my big toe, or all my whole toes. All the toes are scrunched right now. Because I see that I'm being transactional with God, what would you advise her to do?”

Susie: First, I would say, “He loves you. He loves you. He loves you.” And my prayer for this book is that it's a healing balm for your heart. I'm making the case that He's a good God. He's a good God. He's a good Father. And a good Father corrects and directs and replenishes and restores, helping you navigate seasons when you feel Him and can hear Him and seasons when you can’t. 

So, if you're in a situation right now, where you feel that your relationship is transactional, consider this not a condemnation or even an obligation, but an invitation to know Him more. 

I had Chip Ingram on my show. I've had him on a bunch of times. But one day, someone asked about what what is the key to personal revival. He led them to Romans 12. And he said, “Surrender, offer your body. So often things sort of shut down for us spiritually when we're white knuckling something, and you don't even realize it. You're trying to make a transaction over here, but you're clinging over here. The more that you get to know God's character, the more you can trust Him.” 

When you have all these hard parts of your story that are the painful parts, that are like unresolved loops that are going through your heart and your mind, those are the places that the enemy will bait you into accusing God of things He's not guilty of. Actually, it's the enemy that's guilty of those things. 

That is why we need to take some time to sort through our story in light of God's love and resolve some of those harder chapters. So when the enemy comes in and baits us to say, “He's a punitive God, and you've got to convince Him to be good to you.” 

You can say, “You've got the wrong God; you got the wrong man. I know this Father of mine. In seasons where I feel Him and in seasons when I don't, He is good.” 

And the last thing I'll say about that is, “Friend, if you are in that season of transaction, there is a new place that God wants you to grow in intimacy with Him. But if you're in a season where you can't feel Him, if you could peel the sky back right now you know what you would see? You would see a Father who's singing over you, whose smile goes up to His eyes, because He loves you. He’s activated warring angels on your behalf because you have prayed. There's so much activity in the heavenly realm, because You exist.” I think if we could get a glimpse of that, we might not ever have an insecure day ever again. We would understand we are children of God.

Dannah: Wow, that's so good. Susie. Thanks. You know, the story you've told is interesting to me because so many of us that crave the presence of God and want to feel the presence of God. We equate that with a good feeling. It sounds to me what you felt was not exactly the warm fuzzies. Talk about that. 

Susie: Well, I’ve had moments of the warm fuzzies. I make a line in the book about that sometimes we chase the sensational and we miss the supernatural. Because sometimes when you have those moments that are just intimate and you know you have felt His presence, why wouldn't you chase after something like that? Once you've tasted it, it's like, that's why the psalmist said I'd rather be a doorkeeper at the house of my God. 

But the problem with that is when we try to go from event to event, or to recreate those moments. We miss Him in the nooks and crannies of our lives. There will be moments, because He's a good Father, that you encounter Him in a way that warms your heart and heals you. But because He's a good Father, there's times he breaks through and brings clarity or brings correction. If you look at the instances of Scripture, that is what you see. 

I mean, you think about when Jesus told Peter to put the net on the other side of the boat, and then you've got the tearing net, he's screaming for help. And once it all settles down he says, “Depart from me. I'm a sinful man.” And you need to know that when the Spirit of the Living God breaks through, it's not always gooey, there. Almost every time in Scripture, people go face down, because they're so overwhelmed by the majesty of God. 

So, we can't just live from one gooey moment to the next. I've been married for 38 years. My husband is as steady and patient as you can imagine. 

So if someone were to tell me, “I saw him at the local McDonald's and someone butted in front of him and he punched him in the throat.” I would be like, “Wow, you got the wrong man.” I know my husband. He leaves his socks all over the house, but he does not get impatient when people but in front of him. He would give everybody a place in line. 

The enemy wants to do everything he can to disrupt our intimacy with God, and to even wrongly frame our story with God so that we're constantly just moments away from accusing God. 

But I think that when we can understand His character, we can endure those seasons in a way that with a holy confidence He is for me and in His presence is my good.

Dannah: I gotta tell you, you’re setting us all up for next week, because we have a whole program dedicated next week to understanding and recognizing the character of God. This is so good.

Susie, the question on my mind is, if God is everywhere all the time, His presence is omnipresent as we define it; why do some of us feel the presence more often and others don't?

Susie: That's such a wonderful question. I feel like it's complex in one way. Because I think the way we all relate to God is so unique to who we are. I will say that there are some who may be claimed to have the corner on it. That may be they live in an emotive way. Do you know what I'm saying? 

But others, you know, like Brant Hansen, he's on the spectrum. I don't know if you know him. He's a best-selling author, radio host. He doesn't feel things emotionally. He said he hardly ever has felt God's presence, but he loves Him. and he knows God loves him. 

And so, what I would say first of all if you're in a season where you've sensed Him before, but you can't sense Him now, I always start with myself. I'm not saying every one of your battles is your fault, or every silent season is your fault. That is a normal part of Christian life. But I always start with me and I pray Psalm 139, “Search me, O God, and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, point out anything in me that offends you, and lead me in Your everlasting way.” 

And like my friend Maria, she puts it this way. When you search your heart, if the Lord shows you something, repent, and then roar. And she said if He doesn't show you anything, just roar. Remember who you are, so if you can't hear what He's saying, remember what He's said, because He's the same God. 

So, if you've gone a long time, and you've not sensed Him, oftentimes we'll blame God for that. But it might be as you search your heart, you've built up a case against somebody—you're undermining your pastor and picking apart his sermon, you've become gossipy. You know, we drift, and we don't even realize it. 

I mean, you know what Paul said, “My conscience is clear doesn't mean I'm innocent.” And David said, “Keep me back from presumptuous sins.” 

So for me, I always like to start there, “Lord, is there anything in me that is been a hindrance to me hearing Your voice, because your voice is everything? 

And if there's nothing and I'm walking through a dark night of the soul or a season of silence, I finally have learned not to doubt His love, not to doubt my identity. I go back to old journals, into the Scripture to remember what He said. And I'm going to live up to what He's saying. And those seasons in due time pass. But I think sometimes we are too passive. If we're walking through a season, we shrug our shoulders and think God's not speaking, but it requires our active participation for sure.

Dannah: I would say lean on your girlfriends. I have a friend right now who's struggling with depression, and I have battled depression so I know that the part of the brain often affected by depression, clinical depression can inhibit your feeling emotions. Like, feeling the presence of others ,feeling connected to your husband, your best friends, your children, and God. 

And so, I just keep telling her what you've experienced from God in the past. I remind her of experiences with God that was real. That was real, right now a part of you is physiologically broken, so you're having a hard time feeling it. But let's remember where you have felt it. I think we sometimes need girlfriends to just breathe that truth in, that life into us. 

So, if you're struggling through depression, find someone to walk with you through that.

Susie, for the person that's feeling forgotten by God, they can't feel His presence today, take us to a Scripture that you would say, “This is the Scripture I would advise you to start meditating on, just think it over, mull it over, turn it over in your mind, in your heart, say it out loud, as you begin to get your brain, your body, into alignment with the presence of God.”

Susie: Great question. I would say Psalm 106:7 and the Amplified Version. This is so big to me because I've been feeling like I want to know why the Israelites were in captivity in the first place, why they were exiled later to Babylon, because they were forgetters. And in some ways, I feel like we're in a kind of exile, sort of speaking. I want to understand what were the mistakes that they made so I don't make those. I stumbled upon Psalm 106: 7 in the Amplified, and it gives three things that they did that we don't want to do. The first thing is they didn't remember the significance. They didn't remember and appreciate the significance of God's miracles. 

And I say if you're in-between miracles is just as you said, Dannah, reach back into your history or even biblical history bring a miracle to the forefront. This will have to do for now. He is the same God. 

The second thing is they stopped marveling at the abundance of His mercies. He sends new mercies to our door every day before we even have a chance to blow it. He is so committed to getting us safely home. In fact, He doesn't punish us as our sins deserve. I mean, think about the things you've said that you didn't get into trouble for. I'm not making light of sin, but I'm saying He doesn't punish us as our sins deserve. His love covers a multitude of sins. They sort of shrug their shoulders at this abundance of mercies. 

And finally, they didn't imprint His love and kindness on their hearts. And this is an action Dannah. I walked through a massive relapse of my health eight years ago, and I realized I was rehearsing the symptoms and the fear around those symptoms more than I was rehearsing His love. 

This is why I can't stress enough that He's the same God. But there are things we can do in our participation. Stay in awe of His mercy of His miracles. Stay in awe of His mercies. Keep reminding your soul of every good gift in my life is a gift from a Father who loves me.

Dannah: So good. Susie, thank you so much for being here with us today. Where can people find out more about your book? The title of that book is Closer Than Your Next Breath?

Susie: Yes, wherever books are sold: Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Christian book. And my show is a live show on a radio network. But it goes to podcasts, so wherever podcasts are, search “Susie Larson.” Then as you said, on social media we post blessings morning and evening. I don't post a lot of personal stuff. I'm an introvert, let me just say. But there are blessings there. So hopefully that will be a blessing to many.

Dannah: I love those blessings. And speaking of that, before Erin gets us grounded in God's Word, would you bless us as we open the Word of God?

Susie: Absolutely. May you all abound in love more and more. May you increase daily and all wisdom, knowledge, and depth of insight. May you understand the times and know what to do. May you give out God's wisdom and will. May you abide in the vine and bear the fruit of righteousness. May you live with honor and run the race to win. And Lord, pour out Your Spirit and heal what needs healing, strengthen what needs strengthening, bring clarity and conviction and courage to live out our faith journey in this day, in Jesus’ name, amen.

Dannah: Amen. Thank you so much Susie for being with us today.

Susie: Always an honor. God bless you all.

Erin: Make it so Lord.

Dannah: Yes. 

Erin: What a powerful blessing and a powerful interview.

Dannah: Good stuff, huh?

Erin: Thank you so much, Dannah. 

It is time to get grounded in God's Word. Susie was pointing us to the Scripture over and over again. But we're going to just park somewhere together for a minute. 

Before we do, I want to give you a little reminder. And that's this: what happens here on Grounded shouldn't stay here on Grounded. The reason that we gather like this week after week is because we want the things we talked about here, the conversations we have, the passages we open to in Scripture, to impact the way we all see and respond to the world around us. We say every week we're here to give out hope and perspective. But we do that in the hopes that you will give out hope of perspective. And then those people will give out hope of perspective. And then those people will give out hope and perspective. 

35:33 - Grounded in God's Word (with Erin)

So as we open God's Word, I hope you're going to feel compelled, or even if you don't feel like it, that you will be compelled to take action, after we've thought about God's presence.

I want you to open your Bible to 2 Thessalonians. I'm going to read us a long passage, 2 Thessalonians 1:4-9. 

Therefore we ourselves boast about you in the churches of God for your steadfastness and faith in all your persecutions and in the afflictions that you are enduring. 

That sounds like to me, a little bit like what Susie was describing, when you’re in the middle of something and you just endure it, right?

This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God . . . 

What’s the “this”? The endurance of the saints.

. . . . that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering—since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.

Might feel like you just turned on a movie in the middle there. I would say that we don't want to use the claw method—where when we study Scripture we just drop a claw in and take a few verses out and try to apply it. So, let's just take a second and try to get the lay of the land. 

Paul was writing to Christians in his day. And these were Christians who were suffering—that's fairly evident. I can see myself in their shoes, can't you? I'm not, by God's grace, suffering persecution because I'm a Christian. But I'm certainly suffering challenges and am dealing with some challenges. Like these believers in Thessalonica, when we are suffering, when there is struggle, when we feel misunderstood, when things aren't going our way, what do we need to be reminded of? When we're suffering, when we're truly suffering, Paul reminded these believers that Jesus is coming back. 

He will turn this world right side up. And part of His return is the restoration of shalom, that perfect peace-filled presence that God has always intended to have with His children. 

But part of it will be dealing with those who deny Him and persist in their wickedness and refuse to surrender their lives to Him. What's going to happen to them when He returns? 

It's right there in verse 9a. It's a hard pill to swallow, a difficult verse, but there in the inspired Word of God. Let me read it to us again. The “they” there are those who deny Christ, “they will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His might.” 

Away from the presence of the Lord. Doesn't that make your throat tighten to think about? Can you imagine being cast away from Jesus forever and ever, and ever? For those of us who are in Christ, we don't have to imagine that. It's never going to happen. God's promise is that no one can snatch us from His hands, that He's gone to prepare a place for us. And when it's ready, He'll come back. He's promised He'll never leave us or forsake us. So we don't have to invest much energy into trying to imagine what it would be like to be sent away from Him forever. 

But for those of us who are in Christ, the thought of being cast away from God's presence is unbearable, especially if we've tasted and seen that the Lord is good. We've gotten glimpses of what it's like to be in His presence. We’ve felt His love. We've experienced that, even though it's not just experience. But if we've had that, the thought of never being in God's presence again is unbearable. 

That's why King David desperately penned these words in Psalm 51:11. “Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.” 

There was some anxiety in his heart that he'd experienced the presence of God and he was worried that God was going to send him away from it. 

For us, the idea of never again experiencing God's presence does feel unbearable. But here's what I want you to hear. For those who don't know Christ it is not the idea of it, it's the reality of it. That needs to sink in. 

I know that we're recording this on a Monday morning. I know that like me, you may tune into Grounded, to fill your cup with energy and pep and excitement for the week. And I know that we don't want to start the week thinking about hell, but hell is real and real people will go there. It was a subject that Jesus took the time to discuss, so should we.

I know I only had a few minutes, and we're talking about really big eternal things here. But I hope that this short teaching of this verse in 2 Thessalonians that tells us that when Christ returns, those who have not surrendered their lives and will be cast out of His presence forever; I hope that reality does two simultaneous things in your heart. I hope it gives you profound gratitude for all you have been saved from if you are in fact a follower of Jesus. You will not experience the wrath of God, which by the way we deserve, you will instead experience His presence. 

John wrote about it a few chapters later in Revelation 22:1–5. 

Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 

That sure beats our beautiful fall foliage, which I enjoy, but there's going to be these trees, and the leaves are going to heal our nation.

Verse 3: 

No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. [And here’s the description of His presence.] And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.

Our future is the presence of Jesus forever and ever so bright that we don't even need a sun anymore. I hope that even if God feels distant, even if His presence is not something that you can experience with your five senses, I hope that you have fresh gratitude that you will be spared being cast out of His presence forever, and instead will experience being with Him forever. 

But the second thing I hope this teaching does is I hope it stirs your heart, for those who don't know Christ, because what awaits them is to be cast out of God's presence. If that's you, today is the perfect day to surrender your heart to bow your knee to Jesus. You heard Susie say it over and over, “He loves you.” 

You're hearing my voice in this hard truth because He loves you, and He desires that none should perish. It's like a parent thinking about his children being sent away forever and ever. No way. God doesn't want that! He wants you with Him. And if you are hearing this and your heart maybe is racing, I would encourage you to surrender your life to Him today. Because when you do, you get all kinds of things you don't deserve. God's grace, God's peace, but you also get the promise of His presence.

I know we already prayed, but I just had this teaching so heavy on my heart that I wanted to so clearly share the gospel in the hopes that those who right now if Jesus came back right now, you would not be in his presence forever. You have the opportunity to surrender your life to Him. 

So, Susie already prayed. I'm gonna pray again quickly for anybody who wants to give their life to Jesus.

We love You, Lord. We don't deserve Your presence. We're so unholy, and You're so holy that we deserve to be cast out of Your presence forever. But that's not what You've promised us. You've promised us that we will be with You forever and ever. I pray if there's even one listening to that who does not know Jesus and now has to face the reality if they live their life without surrendering to Him, they will be cast away from You forever. God; I pray that You would compel them to bow the knee to You. Show them how to do it, Lord. We love You. We so look forward to experiencing Your presence in heaven soon. It's in Your name I pray, amen. 

Portia: Amen, Erin Davis. You know what? When we're here on Grounded, we just assume that all of our Grounded sisters know Jesus. And there may be someone who just happened to click from one video on YouTube to the next and they ran across this, or they may have been scrolling on Facebook and saw someone share this. And so, I'm just really grateful that we took time today to share the good news of Jesus Christ and the hope of the gospel. You have blessed me tremendously, so amen. 

Erin: It’s what it’s all about. God will use it, I hope. 

Portia: Amen. Well, wouldn't it be great if we could experience the joy of Christmas together? I know y'all are probably saying this girl is still on the Christmas thing. Yes, I am. Imagine the whole Grounded family celebrating Jesus all in one place singing songs and just enjoy the fellowship. 

Well, we can't make that happen. But we can't give you the next best thing. Revive Our Hearts this year is doing an Advent reading club on Facebook. We can read through this book, Born a Child and Yet a King. We can read through this together this Advent season. Doesn't that just make you excited? It makes me really excited.

This thirty-one day devotional unpacks, the lyrics of some of your favorite Christmas carols. This is a way to keep our hearts closely tethered to the gospel story. And honestly, that is what Christmas is all about. That's why I get so excited about the Christmas season. It's not just about the hot chocolate and the lights. It's because it is about the gospel. It's about Jesus. And so, even though Christmas doesn't start for another month or so . . .

But we’d love to give you the inside scoop. We'd love it if we could all experience Advent together. And so, if you want to join this book club, listen up. You can head on over to ReviveOurHearts.com/AdventBookClub. Okay, I'll see you there. I'm already in the group. I've been seeing so many familiar faces popping up. I am excited. 

And one more thing. We also want to remind you that this month we are giving away a free resource right now. It's exclusively for our Grounded sisters. It's a digital copy of the Power of Words. And it's a four-week devotional study. And so if you want to grab a copy of it, head on over to ReviveOurHearts.com/StayGrounded to get yours. I guess you could consider it an early Christmas gift. 

Dannah: Thanks Portia, that was great. 

Erin: Portia, I saw a survey this weekend on the internet. So you know it's 100% accurate:) It said that people who put their trees up earlier are happier people. So, there you go. Permission slip for Portia.

Dannah: What about what about the people that leave their trees up until February 14?

Erin: I think that might have the opposite effect. 

Portia: Well, I'm that person too. It goes up early, and it comes down late.

Dannah: Maybe the happiness just lasts longer. 

Erin: There you go. Could be true. We’re getting some good feedback. 

Dannah: Good program definitely hit a nerve today. The comments were lighting up, people were having some really rich conversations. Anna chimed in. I just want to read what Jo Jo Starbucks wrote. She wrote, “Wow, follow God on His terms, not mine. That was something that Susie said. It takes strength and courage to do that. But He gives us that strength and courage if we just say yes.”

Take that away from today. Follow God on those terms. I believe that when you do that, you will begin to live in and experience the presence of God in a deeper and richer way. I think it's so cool that Susie mentioned over and over how important it is to know the character of God. It's almost as if God put it in our hearts where we were headed next week. Tell them Erin.

Erin: Yeah, I mean, if we see this week after week, God is in charge of Grounded. We see His hand and those kinds of things. Because today we talked about the presence of God and next week, we're going to be focusing on the character of God. 

So, I would consider these two episodes that go together hand in hand. Share both of them. Watch both of them. Ruth Chou Simons is our guest next week. We've had her on before. We've loved her before. I know it's gonna be a powerful episode and a beautiful episode. She's such a gifted artist. 

Dannah: Yes. 

Erin: So don't miss it. Let's wake up with hope together next week on Grounded. 

Portia: Grounded audio is powered by Skype. Grounded is a production of Revive Our Hearts calling women to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ. 

*Offers available only during the broadcast of the podcast season.