Wisely Responding to the Deconstruction Movement, with Alisa Childers

We’re living in a time where people publicly walking away from their faith in Christ has become a phenomenon. How can Christians stand firm in the "Age of Deconstruction"? Christian apologist Alisa Childers shares insight about how we can respond to this movement and remain firm in faith.

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Erin Davis: Can one YouTube video result in 1,000s of people who claim to be Christians walking away from the Church? I'm Erin Davis, and this is Grounded, a podcast and videocast from Revive Our Hearts. 

Portia Collins: And I’m Portia Collins. Ex-vangelicals, deconstruction, deconversion—it seems like these words are everywhere, and they are used to describe the phenomenon of people publicly walking away from their faith in Christ. Alisa Childers will be joining us in just a few minutes. She's a Christian Apologist. I just love how she communicates. She is equal parts smart, and grace-filled. She's really adding a lot to this conversation. 

Erin: Man, she really is. I'm thrilled to have her here on Grounded. She's been on our Grounded guest hit list for a long time. And so, I am eager to hear from her. But first, you know what we need? We need some good news. 

Portia: Yes, we do. You are going to do something this week that is good for your health. And you don't even have to skip the pie. 

Erin: That's good, cuz I'm not skipping the pie. 

Portia: There is an overwhelming body of medical evidence that shows that being grateful is one of the best things that we can do for our overall health. 

Erin: It’s true, and this is really pretty amazing. There have been a wide variety of medical studies from lots of different sources. And what they found is it does not matter how old you are, it doesn't matter where you live on the globe. It's true that all people who are grateful, who have that as their disposition, have less headaches. Man, that is meaningful to me because I fight the headaches. Have fewer gastrointestinal problems, fewer tummy aches, fewer respiratory infections, which ought to be interesting to us in this current climate that we're living in. And get this, grateful people even have fewer runny noses. I'm on board. 

Portia: I am too I am, and not just for me. I want Emmi to be grateful and Mikhail because I don't want them sick either. 

Erin: Right? You don't want to be wiping Emmi’s nose all the time. It’s like a part-time job in the winter. 

Portia: Yeah. Look, check this out. Grateful people also get better sleep. And if you know me, this girl loves good sleep. 

Erin: I know. I do, too. 

Portia: One study found that more grateful people fall asleep more quickly.

Erin: Okay.

Portia: They sleep longer, and they get better sleep quality.

Erin: Meaning, gratitude is as good as a new mattress. It just enhances the whole experience. 

Portia: Serta, who? No . . . gratefulness. Yeah. And so, this matters because doctors believe and my doctor has actually told me this, that good sleep is a core building block for good health. 

Erin: I know that some of you who watch Grounded are journalers. I'm a journaler, myself. So, I'm going to give us all a journaling assignment. And if you're not a journaler, let's start together, tomorrow. When you open your journal (hopefully you have your Bible handy), here's your assignment: write about the blessings that you're grateful for. We've all heard of gratitude journals. I'm just not sure how many of us are actually doing them. But here's some inspiration. One study found that women who wrote down what they were thankful for, for two weeks, they've lowered their blood pressure. That's amazing to me. They change something inside their bodies by writing out those gratitude journals every day for two weeks. 

Portia: That is certainly amazing, especially as someone who deals with high blood pressure. I actually take meds every day for blood pressure. This makes me want to take that Grounded prescription for gratitude so that I can lower my blood pressure. One last benefit to mention that everybody is always talking about, and that is inflammation. Okay. 

Erin: Oh, man. Anti-Inflammatory stuff is everywhere. 

Portia: Yes. Everywhere. Okay. And guess what researchers say is a proven inflammation fighter? You guessed it. Gratitude.

Erin: Yeah, that's right. You can eat all the kale you want and drink all the apple cider vinegar you want. But gratitude also has an effect in lowering inflammation. So, a good verse for us to meditate on this week is 1 Thessalonians 5:18. It says, “give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.”

And what all of this research flips this verse on its head. God gave us that assignment, being thankful in all circumstances. It wasn't just because He wanted to hear our gratitude, although that is honoring to Him. But He was giving us wisdom for something that is actually good for our hearts, our emotional hearts, and our literal hearts. God is always looking out for us. He knew women who live grateful were gonna sleep better, were gonna have fewer runny noses, were gonna have lower blood pressures. It's a good assignment to take on and that really is good news. 

Portia: It absolutely is good news. I'm going to start my new prescription today. 

Grounded in Faith: Examining Deconstructionism with Alisa Childers

Erin: Okay, me too. Hey, we want to get Grounded with God's people. Early on in this episode, Alisa Childers is with us. She came into the public eye as a member of the popular Christian band ZOEgirl, which I remember with such great fondness. Those were my youth group days when ZOEgirl was playing music. In her thirties she had her own crisis of faith. She's now a Christian apologist. Welcome to Grounded Alisa.

Alisa Childers: Hey, so great to be with you. I learned a lot about gratitude. I make my kids say what they're thankful for in the car on the way to school every morning. 

Erin: I love that assignment. That's right. Hey, I want to hear about that period of doubt in your own life. Can you describe that season for us? 

Alisa: Yeah. It was very unexpected. I never thought in a million years that I would ever doubt my faith. I was that kid. You know, I was that kid in youth group that loved Jesus as far back as she can remember. I've known since I could read that the Bible was it was God's Word. I went on all the mission trips, did ministry even after high school. And of course, as you mentioned, was a part of the contemporary Christian group, ZOEgirl. I never thought that would happen. 

But essentially, my husband, I, when ZOEgirl came off the road, we started attending a church in middle Tennessee. The pastor invited me to be a part of a smaller class in which he revealed that he was actually an agnostic. And so, the class was really looking at the claims of Christianity. 

Erin: Wait a minute, the pastor was an agnostic? 

Alisa: Yes, he was. And that's actually not uncommon in the movement of progressive Christianity, which was what that was about. I just didn't know it at the time. I hadn't heard that phrase before. But yeah, it really sent me into a dark night of the soul, a time of doubt, and some deconstruction. I’m so thankful that the Lord is so good to lead us to what we need to help us rebuild. That's what He did with me. But yeah, it was a really difficult time.

Erin: Well, I wanted to start there with that story. I hadn't heard the details. But when we talk about deconstruction, I wanted to lay the groundwork that you aren't coming to it from a place of someone who's never had a question about God or the Bible or the Church. Because I think many of us have questions, even if we've loved Jesus our whole lives. So, give us a definition for that word, “deconstruction.” I'm hearing it everywhere. Sometimes I think I'm hearing the right definition. And sometimes I don't think I am. How would you define deconstruction?

Alisa: That's an important question, because you're exactly right. People are defining it in a bunch of different ways. I'm seeing two major definitions emerge. One I agree with; one I don't. Some people are saying deconstruction is simply just taking a look at everything that you've believed all your life, and you're trying to find out what's true. You're holding on to what's true, and you're deconstructing or getting rid of what's not true. I don't think that's actually what people mean when they talk about deconstruction. 

I think the way that you framed it earlier is more correct, in that it's actually more of a dismantling of the beliefs that someone has held. I think it's built upon the idea that truth is relative, right? We want to tear down the constructs of truth we were given. We want to deconstruct those so that we can live our own truth. And I think that's a dangerous game.

Erin: I actually wrote a blog post about deconstruction. I was trying to demystify it, because I kept having these conversations with young women. But actually, in reading from you and watching interviews with you, I thought, Man, I wish I hadn't even used the same word, because the way I'm using it here is not actually the way that it's mostly being used. So that's a helpful definition. 

I do want to say that asking questions about God and the Bible isn't a 2021 phenomenon. Even walking away from Jesus isn't a new phenomenon, necessarily. What is it about these deconstruction stories that you think get so much attention. I mean, these things just blow up on social media. 

Alisa: I think they're getting so much attention because it's largely a movement of people that are reacting against the type of Christianity they grew up with. And so, it's not like people are discovering this new worldview that makes sense, and it's coherent. And they're like, “I think that's right. And what I grew up with is wrong.” It's really more about what you're walking away from. 

And so, I think that when the people in the deconstruction movement are talking about deconstruction, they're not just talking about what we might call doubt. You're kind of doubting something you believe. You want to investigate whether or not it's true. I think that we're seeing it take off just for the reason you said. We have the smartphones now, we have social media platforms. People have literally so much information at their fingertips about any question they might have. You could put one question into your search bar and go back and forth with the arguments and the counter arguments for the rest of your life. You could never settle on what you think is actually true. 

And so, I think this is really throwing people for a loop. You're right, we're seeing YouTube videos that's dismantling the faith of people who have been lifelong Christians in one or two hours. I think that that really reveals that the Church has failed to really equip Christians to engage their faith intellectually, because these arguments are not new. It's not like people are bringing up brand-new ideas that Christians are going, “Ah, how do we answer this?” There have been answers for these things for a long time. But it's just new to people, I think, because of this vehicle of social media and the smartphone.

Erin: Yeah, I think a Paul at Mars Hill. I mean, you some of these similar debates that in a lot of ways, they are ancient. But we are seeing high profile, in some cases, celebrity Christians making these deconstruction stories, which of course, that's going to get attention. And it's fascinating. I'm listening, and watching so many of these deconstruction stories, and I'm hearing some themes. I bet you're hearing them too. It seems like a lot of them are really rooted in church hurt. I wonder if that's been your experience, too? And if so, as women who do love Jesus, and as we are part of the church, what can we do to be a balm to those who have been wounded by the church?

Alisa: That's a fantastic question. And it's so important. I actually just did a two-part series on my podcast about spiritual abuse, church abuse, because it's such a consistent theme in almost every deconstruction story that you'll hear.

Erin: And it’s real. I don't want to discount that people have experienced real hurt, right?

Alisa: That's right. It's sort of an epidemic. I think there's legitimate complaints of spiritual abuse. Now, it can be a bit confusing, because in the progressive Christian paradigm in the deconstructionist paradigm, even just core doctrines of Christianity are viewed as abusive. So, it requires a bit of a surgeon's scalpel to parse out what's actual abuse, and what is just a teaching that doesn't make you feel good? Because there's a difference, right? But yes, I think it's an epidemic. 

I think that to answer your question about being a balm to our friends, man, what an opportunity. If somebody comes to you and says, “Look, I've had this painful experience in a church.” What a great opportunity to acknowledge what they went through was real, right? What a great opportunity to say, “I'm so sorry, that happened to you.” If there was an abuse of power, even in some cases, sexual abuse, things like this, to acknowledge that what you went through is real and it was wrong and that God hates that. 

There are passages in the Bible that talk about abusive leaders and what to do and how to handle those. Jesus didn't take too kindly to the Pharisees and others who were abusing their power and abusing the doctrines, they were supposed to be teaching in a certain way that we're adding to those things. And so, I think just acknowledgement, and sitting with someone, crying with those who cry. Then of course, with the hope of gently leading them toward truth and toward healing, which, of course, is the gospel. And that's where it's going to require a surgeon’s scalpel. 

Sometimes, because for a lot of people . . . My friend who joined me on my podcast said something so powerful. She said that so many people have a hard time differentiating between Jesus and the things that have been done in Jesus’ name. And so, for a lot of people that is going to be all tied up together in a big messy ball for a while. And so, we want to be there for our friends and love them, walk with them through it, try to gently point them toward healing and truth. But yeah, it's a huge reason I think we're seeing so many deconstruction stories.

Erin: And to me, I just want to say this is why we need Jesus so much. This really is the heartbeat of the gospel. We are broken, and we do hurt each other. That's absolutely true. So, it's an honor if a person does bring that part of their story to you, and I think we need to be equipped and ready.

I gotta say, I do have an agenda for this episode. I'll be upfront about I'm actually not all that interested in the whole high profile deconstruction stories that temporarily go viral. I mean, each one of those represents a person made in the image of God. So it matters. But here's where this rubber meets the road. 

For me, I am having conversations with many young women, 20-something women, who are somewhere on the deconstruction journey. Some of them are in that church hurt; they're asking questions because of it. Some of them even have gone so far as to cut me out of their life because they don't want to hear the truth of the gospel anymore. It's happened with such frequency that I feel like I don't know how to respond. I know there's going to be women watching who say that's their son, that's their daughter, that's their granddaughter that has made this decision to walk away from the faith they're deconstructing. I wonder if you could give us some language that is helpful when we find ourselves in the situation where it's not a headline, it's someone we love, who is tearing apart their faith. 

Alisa: When I was going through my own bit of deconstruction as a result of being a part of this class, there were a couple people in my life who responded to me very differently. One always reacted in fear and wanted to tell me what to believe and wanting me to believe it right now. Like, “This is what's true; you have to come and reject what's false.” There was so much fear and so much tension, I didn't want to talk to that person. 

But there was another person in my life who was very just chill about it. Whenever I would say, cause I didn't want to talk to a lot of people about it, because I didn't want other people to lose their faith. But when I would sort of just mention some of the questions and things I had, this other person was like, “Well, hey, I don't know the answer to that. I've never really thought that through. But you know, I'd love to help you work through this if I can.” There just wasn't any fear. So I think the best thing we can do before you try to give truth is establish yourself as a safe place for this person to express what their doubts are and why they have them and diagnosing that. It is going to be super important in our daily relationships with people who are going through this stuff.

Erin: Man, I think I've been the first friend too many times, just like, you know, white knuckling. “I don't want you to walk away from Jesus because I know what's on the other side of life without Jesus.” But I am learning to respond with prayer, fasting, love. It’s the Lord who's the reconciler. You know, I think there's probably a woman or two, maybe many listening, and they are in a period of doubt right now. This is not about somebody else. This is about them. I would love to hear what reconstruction looks like, built on truths. Maybe she's torn apart parts of her faith, and she wants to rebuild. What did that rebuilding look like for you?

Alisa: That's such a huge question. I think Christians, first of all, should not be afraid of doubt. I think that we have this misconception that doubt is somehow the opposite of faith, it's really not. The opposite of faith is unbelief. Doubt is going to be a natural part of a mature Christian’s life. 

If you just accept all the beliefs that were given to you, and never question them and never doubt them, well then, we have no way to pull people out of Mormonism or Jehovah's Witness. Because if we just tell people don't doubt, then they're not going to doubt and stuff . . . It's good for us to doubt, actually. Don't push it down. But always have truth as the goal. And that's what keeps you from going into deconstruction. 

But I would say for the person who maybe has had some deconstruction, or maybe just some honest doubt and you don't know what to do with it . . . You're scared because it's terrifying. It really is when you feel like your worldview is just getting knocked out from underneath you. I think my encouragement would be, don't shove those doubts down. Walk through them, take them to Jesus. He can handle it. He'll walk with you through those doubts, because doubt is directional. We're going to doubt one way or the other. We're either doubting towards skepticism, or we're doubting toward God and toward having faith in God.

And so, my advice would be, don't shut God out of the process, and don't shut other believers out of the process. Always examine your own motives. Make sure that you're not just looking for reasons to justify unbelief that might already be there. But make sure you're really on a truth-seeking journey.

Erin: Yeah, and don't stop reading this book. I mean, I've often said if you don't have questions about this book, you're not reading this book. You're reading People magazine. I mean, this is this is not an easy book to wrestle with. But when we close it, then we stop wrestling, and this is really the source of truth. 

Living in what’s been called the age of deconstruction, which I don't love that banner that's been put over this era, but living in the age of deconstruction can be really discouraging for those of us who are in Christ. What gives you hope about the Church in these days?

Alisa: Well, what gives me hope is that so many people get so upset about all the deconstruction, or they wonder like wow, if this many people are falling away, maybe it's not true . . . But I think that God is refining and purifying His Church. He told us this would happen. We know this is going to happen, there's going to be a great falling away. We should expect it; we shouldn't be surprised by it. We should also be encouraged in knowing that this is sort of shaking the church. 

It's amazing to me, when I look at people, I'll think (maybe it reveals my judgment of them) that would have been somebody I would have thought would have been shaken so much, but they're standing strong. And then the person that thought was solid as a rock is falling away. And it's just bizarre. It makes you lean on God's sovereignty. It makes you lean into His truth. And knowing that, man, I just want to make sure I'm found in Him, abiding in Christ. 

So I don't get quite as discouraged by it because I think we don't know the end of the story yet. There are a lot of people that are in deconstruction. We don't know what God's gonna do with all those people. There have been revivals throughout our church history. It could be that some people are deconstructing, because at the end, God wants to radically save them in some kind of revival movement. I mean, I don't know. I trust the Lord. 

I'm not shaken by this, because everybody is really causing people to do some self-examination, to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling as the Word tells us to do. You're kind of forced; you can't just coast anymore. And so, I think that is a very hopeful thing. That's what keeps me hopeful is God's sovereignty knowing that He's got this. He's got this. 

Erin: Yeah. I'm with you. I actually think the Lord's preparing the Church. Like, we're in basic training, what He's preparing us for, I don't know. But those of us who are standing are squaring our shoulders; we are setting our feet. The Lord is at work. So, thank you. I've been so looking forward to this conversation. I could talk and talk and talk to you about it. But you've got to go on. You’ve got another interview. So, appreciate you being on. 

We do want to drop a link to your website. I think I might have read every word in preparing for this episode. I just learned so much from you. And it's AlisaChilders.com. By the way, we'll drop the link. But what's the name of those podcast episodes you just mentioned that are on this topic? I'd love for you to mention those specifically.

Alisa: So the ones on spiritual abuse were the last two ones that I did. The first one is called “Spiritual Abuse in the Church: Why We Should Listen.” And the second one is, “Red Flags for Spiritual Abuse in your Church.” So, in the first one, we tell a story of spiritual abuse. And the second one is, hey, here's what to look for to diagnose this. That's the Alisa Childers podcast. It's also on YouTube. Just search Alisa Childers on YouTube, and you'll see those two episodes pop up.

Erin: Okay, I’ve got a road trip this week. Those are going to be my road trip episodes. I'm going to listen to and share them. Thanks again for being with us.

Alisa: Oh, what a pleasure. Thanks.

Portia: Well, here on Grounded, we are always working to tell different kinds of stories than the ones that you hear on the news or maybe in social media. And more often than not, these might not be the kind of stories that go viral. But this morning, we want to tell stories of steadfastness. Erin recently sat down with Laura Booz and Staci Rudolph to study the life of Deborah. Laura shared her story of a woman who just keeps on following Jesus. So, let's listen. And then we'll get grounded in God's Word. 

From the Women of the Bible Podcast: Deborah

Erin: We don't just need a revolution of women willing to live for Jesus. We need a revolution of women willing to keep living for Jesus, you know, that don't just burn hot and then peter out, who don't just have a lot of zeal and then get squashed by the world. And then, you know, have no zeal and just tread water for the rest of our years. 

Staci Rudolph: We just do it when it's comfortable for us.

Erin: Right. We stay in it. We don't just decide. As a new believer, I am going to fight for the Lord. I'm gonna fight for the gospel. I'm going to fight for God's truth and then get caught up in other priorities. This steadfastness is a character trait that I think is so important. Laura, I feel like you know a lot of wise and wonderful women. Can you think of one who is steadfast? I think it's hard for us to even picture what a steadfast woman of God is like. What does she like?

Laura Booz: Yes, I think of one right off the bat. She has battled colon cancer several times. She lost her son to colon cancer when he was just in his 20s. She will not stop serving the Lord. She does not stop walking with Jesus. She's in the hospital. She pops right back out. And she's still at it. She's in her 70s approaching 80 And just the other night at our small group, she was talking about how she was noticing she was getting discouraged from the news. It was really getting her down. And she said, “I had to get on the treadmill; I had to start walking; I had to put worship music on, and I had to renew my mind.” 

Erin: There's the singing again. 

Laura: Yeah, I just thought this made small group worthwhile just for me to sit here and hear you say, the race isn't over. When you're approaching 80, you still have to keep on stepping forward. I know she loves Jesus; I know He is the wellspring of her life. Now, it's not just for principle, or I've just got to keep going because of grit. But it's really out of a relationship. She is considering Him when she is moving forward.

Staci: Just hearing you say that, it makes me think of how so many of us have a transactional view of God. So, if You do this, then I'll do this. 

Erin: But if you don’t do this . . .

Staci: If You act this, then I'm not doing this. Just to hear you say, talk about her in spite of everything, I mean, colon cancer and all of that, you would think she . . . There's some people that would say, No, God, obviously, You're not for me, because You did this. And it's just not the way that God is. It's not how we should be towards God.

Grounded in the Word: James 1:12

Portia: Every bit of that resonates with me. You know, I'd be lying if I said, I haven't wrestled with my faith, a time or two in life. And if, if I'm honest, it's probably been more than a time or two, probably dozens of times. I've experienced incredibly hard seasons of life, from chronic illness, to miscarriage, to financial hardship, and even very broken relationship between friends and family. And many of these things have seriously rocked me to my core, to the point of me asking myself, “Well, why am I still believing? What good is my faith? Is God even here in the midst of this?” 

Well, thankfully, God has always been so kind, to answer me through His precious Word. And there's been one particular verse that has been an anchor of truth when my faith is feeling shaky. I'd like you to turn with me really quickly to James, the first chapter. We're going to look at verse 12. And it says, “Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.”

Doesn't this coincide with what we just heard Laura and Erin and Staci say, about the woman who continues to follow Jesus, not just because she has grit, but because of her love for Him? 

I want you to focus on two words here in this particular verse: “endure” and “receive.” Sisters, I want you to know this: every time your faith is tested, it is an opportunity to endure. And what does it mean to endure, to persist, to carry on, to be steadfast? When we endure, we can be sure that we will receive those two words “endure,” “receive,” what will we receive the crown of life, the promises of God, immeasurable blessing. James remind reminds us that it really is worth it to endure. Our steadfastness is not lost on God. In one day, we will be rewarded as we demonstrate our love for Jesus by persevering in our faith.

In one of his sermons, my favorite Charles Spurgeon describes the crown of life in the most beautiful way. He says, “There shall be no emptiness, no sense of depletion, nor of need. We shall be forever full with all the fullness of God. There should be no pain, no misery, but a plentitude of enjoyment at His right hand, where there are pleasures forevermore. We shall possess and enjoy all that manhood can desire. All that you can ask or think shall be yours, and much more than that inconceivable enjoyment, bliss, rapture, and ecstasy, all shall be bestowed upon you by the unstinted head of boundless love. Life shall crown all in all your life shall be crown, and all the crown shall be life.” Amen. 

I pray sisters, that you will endure.

Conclusion

Erin: “Unstinted hand of boundless love” man, He's worth enduring for isn’t He. Hey, Portia, I'm going to switch gears real quick because we're landing the plane on this episode. Will you be one of the girls shopping at midnight on Thanksgiving? 

Portia: Probably. 

Erin: Yeah! Me too!

Portia: And it's probably gonna be for like Bibles and books.

Erin: Okay, well, I hit up Academy, and I get the Nike hoodies for the boys at midnight. But I do also like to stock up on great gifts. And we do want to tell you that Revive Our Hearts has a Thanksgiving sale. And it starts today. We've been saying it's gifts that matter. It really is. So yeah, get your boy a Nike hoodie. But also, there's all kinds of great Revive Our Hearts resources, and they're at deep discounts. 

One of the things that's in the sale, is this lovely . . . Oh, you can't see it. This is the 2022 Revive Our Hearts calendar. And it's beautiful. Laurel, who's on our team did all these designs, but the name of it is Grounded. So I like to think they named it after us. They did not in fact, name it after us. But you could get it. I give the calendar to all my lady people on my list that are women, everybody gets the calendar. So just want you to know the inside scoop about that sale. It starts today. And it's at ReviveOurHearts.com/Thanksgiving. 

Well, it's time to say goodbye to this episode. I've been looking forward to this conversation. I do feel equipped and encouraged. If you can hear my voice right now, I want you to know that you've just been deputized to spread the word about this episode. Do you accept that assignment? Portia Collins. 

Portia: Absolutely. I am telling everybody, we've got to share this out. Especially I know that we all know somebody who is dealing with this who's wrestling with their faith. And so we pray that this will be an encouragement to them. 

Erin: Yeah, just keep it in your back pocket if nobody comes to mind for that time when that conversation does come to you. Because Alisa had so much wisdom specifically, I want to say that if you have a woman in your life who's in the age range of 15 to 35. That's a 20-year age range. Please share this episode with her because she does need some handles for how to think about this. She's getting plenty of messages from the culture and through her phone. And she needs some handles for how to think about deconstruction. Alisa did give us such profound wisdom. So, we're leaning on you to spread the word. 

Portia: Absolutely. Well don't miss next week. Colleen Chao will be with us. I got a chance to meet Colleen at Revive ’21. I love her. I am so blessed by her testimony. She is going to help us consider how we can glorify God at the end of our lives. Bring some tissues.

Erin: Bring some tissues.

Portia: And let's wake up with hope together next week on Grounded. 

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