Hope and Perspective for the Crisis in Ukraine

Dannah Gresh: World events don’t need to cause panic in God’s people. Here’s Karen Ellis, commenting on the war in Ukraine.

Karen Ellis: God is superintending these affairs. He uses these things for the furtherance of His kingdom; He also uses them to refine the Church. He uses them to call people out of darkness into His marvelous light.

Dannah: This is the Revive Our Hearts podcast with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, coauthor of You Can Trust God to Write Your Story, for March 1, 2022. I’m Dannah Gresh.

What really is going on in Ukraine? Today we’re preempting the program we had planned to air, because we just feel so strongly that the people of God need to be praying for what is happening in the country of Ukraine, and we need to be informed and equipped in our prayers.

Well, yesterday we aired a special edition of our live videocast, Grounded. We wanted to get a biblical perspective on the conflict from an American-Israeli, and we wanted to be coached up by an advocate for the globally persecuted church, so that we would know how to pray.

Well, Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth was watching that episode of Grounded, and she said that what she heard was so important and timely that she wanted you to hear it today. I agree.

Now, what we were going to air today was day two of a teaching I presented about being grounded in community, and it’s so critical that we join together as the body of Christ in these days. You can still hear that. You’ll find the link of that teaching in the transcript of today’s program. And we don’t have time to air everything we talked about on yesterday’s episode of Grounded, so you can find the link for the full episode, with video, at ReviveOurHearts.com.

Erin Davis: Welcome to an edition of Grounded. We cannot wait for you to be a part of. I'm Erin Davis. 

Portia Collins: And I'm Portia Collins.

Dannah Gresh: And I am Dannah Gresh. You know, we probably don't have to tell you what the headlines are reading like this morning. Like us, you've probably already seen the images, heard the sounds of the sirens. They haunt my heart, the sounds and images of a nation, the nation of Ukraine. Right now, it's filling with Russian tanks and an entire convoy crossing the nation. 

There are civilians young and old, just like you just like me, with husbands, wives, separated as these men prepare to fight to defend their country. Those separated families are many of the women and children being forced to flee the country.

Just listening to what is happening in the world right now is so significant that some commentators are saying that we may be actually watching the beginnings of World War III unfold before our eyes. We've got to pay attention. And we've got to be in prayer.

Erin: Yep, no heads in the sand this morning. It is not actually a really good option. And really, this is what Grounded does. Some of you may be new, some of you may have been with us from the beginning, but Grounded was born during a time of global crisis. Now, it was a different kind of global crisis than it was in COVID-19 pandemic, but our mission hasn't changed. We're here to give out hope and perspective. 

I don't know about you, but I don't feel like a lot of folks are handing those things out this morning with hope in perspective. And especially, we want to give hope and perspective when the headlines are scary . . . and they are scary. It's really frightening. I was just watching a clip this morning of a pastor talking about how afraid his people are in his church. 

So how do we as followers of Jesus respond to times like these? Where does our help and our hope come from? Well, I know you agree with us, hope comes from God's Word. And we have a perspective to offer that I'm confident you're not gonna find in any other news feed.

Portia: Absolutely. I agree. And bringing that unique, truth-saturated perspective is two guests that we are honored to host this morning, Joel Rosenberg. He is here to tell us what the conflict in Ukraine has to do with the nation of Israel.

Dannah: We're also going to be joined by Karen Ellis. She is one of my favorite guest interviewees on our flagship program, Revive Our Hearts. I am still impassioned from her teaching on prayer from a few years ago, almost two years ago, and she's going to be joining us. She's gonna be joining us to teach us how to pray for the Ukrainian Church and the nation of Ukraine.

Erin: First up is Joel Rosenberg. He has addressed audiences at the White House, the Pentagon, and the European Union, just to name a few. He's met with presidents, and he's led six delegations of evangelical leaders to meet with Arab leaders. Well, today, he's here to meet with us. You may know him as the best-selling author of books like Epicenter and The Last Jihad. Welcome to Grounded, Joel. We're so glad you're with us this morning.

Joel Rosenberg: Honored to be with you all, with all of you women. Whank you so much for having me.

Erin: Let's get to it. The eyes of the world are now on Russia and Ukraine—everybody's looking in that direction. If you could just give us some basics, because I feel like that part of the world is confusing. What's happening is confusing. So as followers of Jesus, what are some things that we need to know about Russia and Ukraine, and the leaders of those nations, and everything that we're seeing unfold?

Joel: Sure, happy to do it. Let me just give you a little bit of context first, for those who aren't familiar with me so that you have some idea of who I am and why am I talking about these things. I'm the grandson of Orthodox Jews that escaped out of Belarus. The city of Minsk, which is just above just to the north of Ukraine. Right now, Belarus is a Russian, Putin ally. Putin has sent in tens of thousands of military troops into Belarus. He is invading Ukraine from the north through Belarus. And then, of course, coming from the east, from Russia directly into Ukraine. So, my family on my father's side were Orthodox Jews that escaped in several batches in 1906 1907. They got out of the terrible persecution of the Jews at that time and got to the United States. 

This is where my father and the rest of this our family came to faith in Jesus Christ, Jesus as Messiah, as King, as Lord. My father came to faith in 1973 in Jesus. He thought he was the first Jew since the apostle Paul who would believe. He'd never met a Jewish person who believed that Jesus is the Messiah. He never heard of one. And in 1973 there weren't that many. But there are almost a million Jewish followers of Jesus in the world today. 

So, I just want to give you a little bit of context. That's me, my spiritual and ethnic side. My mom's side is English, Methodist. They came before the Revolutionary War. So that's me in a nutshell. 

Now, I've written a number of books over the years, about Russia, about the threat of Russia to the rest of the world, and I’ve included some of the prophecies many Bible scholars, myself included, believe have to do with Russia. So that's just some context. 

Now, what's literally happening on the ground, what you have is the decision of one man. The decision to invade Ukraine is not a Russian national decision. This is a decision of Vladimir Putin, the President of Russia. In a new nonfiction book called Enemies and Allies, which just released last fall, I look at who are our enemies today and who are our allies. Vladimir Putin ranks as one of our most serious enemies in this world. 

Now, again, many people in Washington, many people the United States until this past week, felt Putin was not the nicest guy. But they were like, “Joel, you're a little overblown. Come on. Have some decaf. Dude, seriously, just take a chill pill. Russia, he's not great. But he's sort of an ally. He's not an enemy.” 

No, he's an enemy. I think he's been unmasked this week. He is threatening nuclear war in Ukraine. Why? He put all Russian nuclear forces on high alert yesterday. Why? Because he's losing in Ukraine. He thought this was going to be a walk in the park, he would storm in there, he would take over the capital, he would capture or kill the Jewish President of Ukraine.  

But Putin thought it was a walk in the park. You take over Ukraine, and by doing so, he would freak out Washington, Brussels, Berlin, everybody in Europe, everybody in the world, including Israel. Because Putin wants to portray himself as the bad boy of the block, right? He wants to portray himself as the guy you need to fear and kowtow to and give him what he wants or he will come after you. And he is losing. Five days into the war. 

The Ukrainian people are showing tremendous resilience, but I'll have to say also . . . I've talked to many Ukrainian officials and pastors. Our team at our news site, All Israel News, is covering this very extensively. Yes, Ukrainians are brave, and yes, they are being incredibly resilient. But it's the grace of God the prayers of millions of Christians around the world. We're saying, listen, Lord, have mercy on the Russian people too. But right now, the Russian government is invading illegally and it is morally unconscionable. Protect the Ukrainian people and help the Church be strong. And we believe God has been answering these prayers in really miraculous ways.

Erin: Yeah, I think it was actually on your website that I read the headline prayers are working, and it showed an image of a Russian tank destroyed. And that is such a hope-fille story that God answers prayer and is involved. Right? 

Joel: It is. In fact, a very senior U.S. Ukrainian official told me in an interview we did for All Israel News, that they are the Ukrainian government and people are seeing this as Ukraine's “Israel moment.” That's what he called it an “Israel moment.” He won because Israel was such a small country, and it faced terrible odds. Like we face utter destruction. (I'm an Israeli and an American dual citizen just for context.) 

In 1948, when Israel was being prophetically reborn as a country, the way the ancient prophet said it would be, five Arab nations attacked us all at once. We didn't have enough weapons. We didn't have enough airplanes. We didn't have enough bullets. Were we resilient? Yes, but it does not explain. Israel's courage does not explain the success in 1948. Nor in 1967, when we were attacked again, nor 1973 and during a sneak attack. 

The mercy of God was upon the nation of Israel, not because we're righteous, not because everybody in Israel knows Jesus, knows Yeshua, as Savior. Very few do. But God has a plan and a purpose for the nation of Israel. The prayers of tens of millions of Christians around the world proved very powerful. Ukrainians see themselves in a similar position. They're outgunned. They're outmanned. They are not a nuclear power. 

In fact, Erin, the Ukrainian government literally gave up its nuclear weapons in 1994, because President Bill Clinton said, “Listen, you can't keep nuclear weapons now that the Soviet Union has collapsed, give them back to Russia.”

And Ukraine is like, “No, someday Russia is going to attack us again.”

And President Clinton said, “Don’t worry, like the United States will be with you.” 

So, the so Ukrainian government gave the nuclear weapons back to Moscow. And now what's happened? I mean, the good news is, and I don't want to be political here. I'm just saying that Washington and the rest of NATO need to step up. But it's late, late in the game, they didn't show the type of courage drawing the line against Putin that might have kept him from invading in the first place. 

But by the grace of God and a lot of prayer and amount of pressure, Washington and other capitals are stepping up and trying to help Ukraine, so that's good. 

The other point that the Ukrainian official made to me was, for our All Israel News interview was, this is like a David and Goliath moment. The Ukrainian people see themselves as David, up against the mighty Goliath who should win, right? That's when the story is powerful in the Bible.

Erin: Absolutely.

Joel: Because we all know that Goliath was a giant and had a huge force behind him. He was mocking the God of Israel, just as Vladimir Putin has been. He has shut down any ability to share the gospel in Russia, to tell your friend to come to church, invite them on Facebook or on whatever social media platform, that's illegal now, under what I call Tsar Putin. That’s defiance of the God of the universe, the God of the Bible, the God of Israel. That defiance is never going to go well with a dictator, and it's not going well right now.

Erin: No, it's not. Well, let's talk about the spiritual war. I mean, there's obviously a physical war happening. But there is this other war happening. God's given you a really unique ability to look at the global headlines and make connections to Scripture. I think for a lot of us, we're trying to play catch up. Prophecy is hard to understand, or we don't know where to land with it. And certainly, what's happening in the political landscape can be tough. But we could look at God's Word and find answers. Are there any passages in particular that are giving you comfort, hope, enthusiasm as specifically as you look at this crisis unfolding?

Joel: Well, hope, yes. I wouldn't say enthusiasm. I mean, you still have a country that's being overrun by Russian military forces, tanks, and missiles. Civilians are dying, being massacred. It's a pretty horrific situation. But is there hope? There is. This specific invasion of Ukraine by Russia is not prophetic in the specific sense that there's a specific Bible prophecy that points to this. 

But look at what's happening in context. You mentioned that this very videocast was started at the beginning of the global pandemic. Now, if you look at what Jesus said that His disciples should watch for, that would be signs that His return was getting close. Not that He was going to give us the exact day or hour, He's not going to do that. But when will we know that? We're getting closer? Right? And we see this in Luke 21. We see this in Matthew 24. We see this in Mark chapter 13. And what are some of those prophecies that Jesus tells us? That's the signs to watch for? But one of them is wars. Okay, check. 

And this is the biggest land war in Europe since World War II. So, this is not just, “Well, wars happen.” This is the biggest that we've seen in seventy-five years. That's a big deal when a big land war erupts into Europe in a place that hasn't had a war in almost a century. And the last ones were ghastly, horrific, that you should watch that and go, that could be a sign. I believe it is. It's one of the birth pangs that Jesus spoke of. 

The rumors of war, okay. It's not just that Putin has invaded Ukraine, it's that every country in the region is fearful, and is talking about, “If Putin gets Ukraine, then maybe they're going to come after our countries too.” 

I was just in Estonia two weeks ago. Estonia is a little tiny country, 1.3 million people, right on the border of Russia. It used to be an independent country, then was occupied by the Nazis, then, quote, “liberated” by the Soviets, but then occupied by the Soviets, and then liberated when the Soviet Union collapsed. Those leaders told me in interviews I did for our news site, AllIsrael.com, which is All Israel News, that they're horrified that if Putin grabs Ukraine, and the world doesn't do anything to stop him, that Putin will try to bring these countries that are along Russia's border back in to Russian dominance. These are the rumors of wars. 

Now, those are some of the prophecies, but you also have, of course, in Luke 21, Jesus saying that a global pandemic will happen, or probably multiple ones. He talked about plagues. Plagues was the ancient biblical phrase for what we call a pandemic today, horrible diseases that bring death and destruction in their wake. So, we're seeing these things. 

Ultimately, what's happening? I don't think that's specific prophecy coming true except for the broader birth pangs. But the Bible speaks of God shaking the nations as we get closer to the return of the Lord. 

Habakkuk speaks of this specifically. Amos speaks of Israel specifically being shaken by the Lord. But Habakkuk speaks of all the nations will be shaken by God as we get closer to the return of the Messiah. Why? Because God is in His mercy. This is not judgment, yet judgment will come. But when God allows Satan and his forces to rob, kill, and destroy, especially in this magnitude, this is God allowing nations to be shaken. Why? So that people will let go of anything they're holding on to other than faith in Jesus Christ alone for their freedom, for their salvation.

Erin: Amen. We're seeing that we're getting reports of people coming to the Lord, of people in bomb shelters. I'm seeing images of people in bomb shelters, praying, singing hymns, and the Lord is doing that. 

Joel, I could talk to you forever about this. But I know you need to go on with your day. I’d just love to know a couple things that you're praying for God to do today.

Joel: I'm praying for Volodymyr Zelenskyy. He's the Jewish President of Ukraine. He's doing a great job rallying his people. Let’s pray for President Zelenskyy. Let's pray for the Church in Ukraine to be bold. Yes, if they can escape, wonderful. But while they're there, may the followers of Christ be witnesses of the good news in this darkest hour.

Erin: Amen.

Joel: And then I would ask you to pray for the Jewish people of Ukraine. There are 200,000 Jews that live in Ukraine. And there are 8,000 Israelis who are working there visiting that got trapped. The airports are closed; there's no way out. So please pray for the Jews, the Christians, and the Jewish president Volodymyr Zelenskyy.  

Dannah: Wow, that was really insightful. It started to put together some of the pieces of the puzzle as I've been reading the news over the last week. It gave me such insight.  

But I know this, this is the one thing when my mind goes to all the prophecies and tries to understand it. I know this, Jesus is coming back again.

Erin: Yes, He is. 

Dannah: And today we are one day closer than we were yesterday. And that is exciting. And we need to be a Church that's ready. And a woman that is spending her life preparing the Church to be ready and to be in communion with Him is Karen Ellis. 

I just love this woman. She's the director of the Center for the Study of the Biblical and Ethnicity at Reformed Theological Seminary that's located in Atlanta. She holds a master's degree from Yale University and Westminster Theological Seminary and is a PhD candidate at Oxford center for mission studies in Oxford, England. That's a lot of credentials. But what you're going to find out is she's a woman with such great prayer and such a great heart, a sister in Christ. Since 2003, she's worked as an advocate for the global persecuted church. Welcome, Karen Ellis.

Karen Ellis: Thank you, Dannah. It's good to be with you.

Dannah: We've just heard some of the more political and just factual information. Joel has really unpacked that for us. Now, I want to spend a little bit of time with you, learning how we can pray in this moment. Karen, I keep thinking of that story of Rhoda, that young woman who went to the door as the church was praying for Peter to be released from prison. I picture her like slamming the door shut when she sees him. She's in shock and she’s running, “It works. The prayer works. He's here.” And the church is like, “Go back child, go back and do what you were doing.” Because they don't really believe her. 

In days to come, we may be a shelter, a place to hide and heal these people that are fleeing. But how important is it right now that we are like that church in the book of Acts? That is in our prayer closets together? Why do we need to set apart time to pray today?

Karen: So, you hear all of this talk. Of course, when you hear war and rumors of war, you hear a lot of talk about ammunition. You hear a lot of talk about weapons and weaponry. We, as a different culture, as the kingdom of God on earth, we as those people have been given our own set of weapons and our own ammunition, and our weapons are not the weapons of the world. 

So, it's interesting to me as an advocate, when I see people, when these world events happen, and things become unsettled, there's always people who refuse, even some Christians who rise up and say, “Why are you praying for those people? Why are you praying? Why bother?” 

Don't allow people to disarm you. This is the weapon that we've been given. That distinguishes us from everybody else. It is powerful, and it does move. It moves people. It moves presidents; it moves politics; it moves borders; it moves hearts, and it changes things. 

When we start to believe in that, Dannah, to be anti-prayer is to be anti-Christ. To be anti-prayer is to be against God's people. This is our spiritual weapon.

And so, I've been sort of excited. Prayer is becoming more like breathing for us. We're saying, “Okay, this is the weapon that's been put in our hand. We have the Word. We have the prayers of the saints.” Prayer and the Word appear so often together in the New Testament. I mean, it's so clear to me that this is our first course of action. I grabbed every single prayer list that I could find that was coming from people inside, from Christians inside saying, “This is what we need.” 

There's going to be incredible service that's going to need Holy Spirit empowerment. One thing I can tell you about humanitarian work is it is exhausting. It's exhausting for the people who are fleeing. It's exhausting for the people who are receiving. It's exhausting for the people who are processing. 

We've been seeing the stories about people having different African students who just came to Western Europe to study. They're having trouble getting across the border.

Then there's others who have been received, and they're saying, “If you can get from this point in the north to this point several kilometers away in the south, and you've already been walking in the cold. 

Dannah: Without sleep for days.

Karen: You're carrying your family; you're carrying babies. 

Dannah: Right.

Karen: These are the typical real-life now. imagine the Christian people along the way, waiting to provide help, to provide food. I mean, there's so many untold stories that we won't know about. They fill in the pieces of the puzzle and the pieces of the picture. But they also glorify God as they do it. And they say, “Listen, God's people are here for a reason. They're here for moments like this. They're here to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ in these moments in word and deed.” They desperately need the strength of the rest of the global body doing this in empowering them.

Dannah: Karen, what Scriptures could we be anchoring our prayers in today,?What Scriptures do we go to?

Karen:I have been praying over the whole redemptive, historical story of Scripture, that God is superintending these affairs. 

I've been going to Scriptures that talk about God's sovereignty, that He uses these things for the furtherance of His kingdom. He also uses them to refine the Church. He uses them to call people out of darkness into His marvelous light. He's doing it on scales large and small. 

I also have to remind myself constantly of Ephesians 6, what are our spiritual weapons, and what is our spiritual armor in the midst of any spiritual situation—the battle of darkness and darkness versus light that's undergirding all of this. And I'm not saying that the nations are representing Christianity. I'm talking about the fact that God has promised to keep a people for Himself that will be represented by every tongue, every tribe, every nation.

Dannah: So good. Amen.

Karen: And therefore, everyone who is involved in this is a part of this spiritual battle of Him saying, “I am from the very beginning from Genesis, I created a people for myself, and I'm going to get them to Revelation.” Sometimes in spite of us. Mostly in spite of us. He’s going to keep His promise. 

Dannah: He is. Heaven rules, as Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth says over and over and over again, Heaven rules. Would you pray for us? Maybe pray the armor of God onto us as the intercessors. And pray the armor of God onto those that are on the streets right now in the nation of Ukraine. 

Karen: Heavenly Father, I thank You that You have not left us on this earth by ourselves to figure things out and grope around in the darkness. I thank You that You have left Your Holy Spirit to guide us. You have left Your Word to inform us how You are accomplishing Your will. 

And Lord, I thank You to that You have also given us the ability to take up the spiritual weapons that You have given us to fight the battles in our lives, in our everyday lives, to fight the battles that we see happening around us, to fight battles that we can't even see happening in the realm of the heavenlies. 

You have equipped us by union with Your Son with every spiritual blessing, not a handful of spiritual blessings, not this blessing and not that one. But you have equipped us by every spiritual blessing to bring your power against the flesh and blood against the rulers, the authorities, and the cosmic powers of darkness of evil. You have the ability. When we call on You, You are delighted to unleash your spiritual forces in heaven.

So, God help us to dress ourselves in the full armor that You've given us. So that when the moment comes in our lives when we have to make hard decisions, life-giving, life-flourishing decisions for You, we'll be able to stand with the belt of truth around our waist, with the righteousness like our armor on our chest,

You've shod our feet with readiness for the gospel of peace. And God, help us to take up the shield of faith. Lord, the flaming arrows of life are always flying against us and feel like they're denting. You can hear the clatter against them, God. Give us that helmet of salvation where we know that we're yours. Give us the sword of the Spirit, God, which is Your Word. Help us God to be prayerful in all times and not to shirk back from the weapons that You've given us. Thank You that You promised us all these things and You are not a man that You should lie. We praise You for who You are. In Jesus’ name, amen.

Dannah: Amen. Thank you Karen Ellis for being with us today. You have blessed my heart.

Karen: Thank you for having me.

Dannah: Thanks for listening today. You’ve been listening to a portion of our videocast, Grounded, in which we talked about what’s really happening in the country of Ukraine. I hope you’ll join us tomorrow, when we begin a series exploring and celebrating the names of Christ. Please be back for Revive Our Hearts.

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, calling you to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ.

*Offers available only during the broadcast of the podcast season.