Misconceptions about Heaven

Dannah Gresh: Someday God will make all things new, including our eyesight . . . our vision.

Randy Alcorn: I think we’ll see God in everything on the new earth, and He intends for us to see Him in everything except the sin—how the world is tarnished by sin.

Dannah: You’re listening to the Revive Our Hearts podcast for March 30, 2023, I’m Dannah Gresh. Our host is the author of Adorned, Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. 

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: If you missed yesterday’s conversation with Randy Alcorn, you want to be sure to go back to the Revive Our Hearts app, or to our website, ReviveOurHearts.com, and listen to it. It was a very tender, fresh, meaningful description from the heart of Randy Alcorn about the homegoing of his wife, Nanci, and the journey by which the Lord took her there.

It was also how God gave her the opportunity just a week before the end of this earthly life, to speak into the lives of her children and grandchildren. I won’t give away more than that, but it’s a really special program. You’ll want to go back and listen to it.

So, Randy Alcorn, welcome back to Revive Our Hearts as we continue this conversation about death and dying and heaven, because those all kind of go together. We’ve been so grateful to have you on Revive Our Hearts this week.

Randy: My pleasure to be with you; it’s been great.

Nancy: Randy—as most of our listeners will know, but some won’t—is the author of many, many books. His books take you to the heart of Scripture and the ways of God and make you think. He also has some wonderful novels. Safely Home is probably my favorite, although I’ve read and enjoyed a number of them. And then many books on giving and stewardship. 

We’ve talked on this program before about The Treasure Principle—I highly recommend it! But then a lot of books on heaven. Randy, what got you interested in studying, writing, thinking about heaven?

Randy: I think more than anything else was when my mom was dying of cancer in 1981. I would read to her every night from Revelation 21 and 22. I’d read other passages also, but I got into a habit or a rhythm with that. 

I’d read those two full chapters to her and what struck me was how physical and tangible they are! They are talking about the walls of this great city and the precious metals and the streets and the River of the Water of Life that was coming through the center of the New Jerusalem and the Tree of Life, which is now really a forest of life growing on both sides of this great river.

So you’ve got the allusion back to Eden with the Tree of Life and this beautiful paradise, but it’s bigger and greater than Eden! So it’s like the first two chapters of the Bible and really through most of chapter 3 are there, in Eden. 

But then you’ve got the last two chapters of the Bible, which are a return to Eden, but a greater Eden that’s now a city and has got culture and civilization and all of that. The thing that struck me was: “Wait a minute! When I think of heaven, I just think of the heaven you go to when you die,” which is really before the resurrection.

And this is all after the resurrection, which actually happens in Revelation 20. So, yes, our loved ones who are there right now, that’s where they are—in the present heaven. But we will all experience together for the first time our ultimate destination which is the new earth!

As I was reading that to my mom, I’d go, “You know, we didn't talk about this in Bible college or seminary!” Strangely, by the time you get to the end—like Hebrews to Revelation, especially the end of Revelation—you’re done. Because the teachers run out of time we didn’t deal with Revelation 21 and 22.

In my eschatology courses we talked about the pre-Trib rapture, the mid-Trib rapture, the post-Trib rapture, and we never got to the new earth! So, we never got to the place in which we will spend eternity—the new earth, which is the future heaven to come, where God will bring His kingdom down to earth!

And when I was reading that to my mom, I realized it’s like I missed part of my education, and I’ve never preached about this. So I did preach about it and ultimately wrote the book about it.

Nancy: So, some misconceptions about heaven . . . It sounds like the big misconception is we don’t think about it fully enough, or as big and robust and encompassing a concept as it is. But as you think about kind of the Sunday school or children’s ways (if you grow up in the church) that we may have thought about heaven . . . Now you’ve written about it, a lot of people have read your books.

As you’ve talked with people about this, what are some of the things we may have always assumed or thought about heaven that you’ve discovered, biblically, don’t quite describe it accurately?

Randy: Right. Well, the big thing . . . I think there are a lot of smaller things, even about the present heaven. There are a lot of people who literally have been taught (but if they haven’t been taught this it’s what they have assumed or somehow picked up) is that we really won’t be ourselves anymore.

People say, “Do we lose our identity? Will we remember who we were? Will we still be the same people? Will we recognize our loved ones? Will we even remember our loved ones?” All of these are a failure to recognize continuity, that we continue to be the person that we are when we go to heaven.

So, even though we don’t have our resurrection bodies yet, because we’re not resurrected one at a time . . . Other people have that false notion that when you go to heaven, your body will be there. Well, of course our bodies are left down on earth, and there’s physical evidence for that so we should know that.

But other people assume, “Well, what about all these passages that have people wearing white robes, walking around, talking?” (Which implies vocal chords of some sort, they’re communicating somehow.) 

You’ve got passages in the book of Revelation where you have people carrying palm branches. You’ve got the rich man and Lazarus where the rich man is saying to Abraham, “Send Lazarus over to put his finger in water and cool my tongue.” (see Luke 16:24) And you’re thinking, “Wait! ‘Tongue, finger?’ It sounds like bodies!”

And so part of the answer to that might be that God gives a temporary physical form to human beings since an essential part of our nature is not just our spirit. It’s our spirits, and He breathes into the body of Adam a spirit. It’s body and soul or spirit together that constitutes what it means to be a human being.

So, figuring out what the present heaven is like is one thing, and people have plenty of misconceptions about it. But the huge misconception is that we fail to move forward to our ultimate destination, which is on the new earth.

It says in Revelation 21 God will bring the present heaven, New Jerusalem, down to the new earth which will be an actual physical place that actual physical people—resurrected people—will live in, dwell in forever! And He will be with us and be our God! 

And I believe that means resurrected culture. It means certainly resurrected what we see on the earth. We’ve got water flowing. We’ve got the Tree of Life and presumably other trees. We’ve got eating and drinking, because Jesus said seven or eight times in the gospels in the kingdom of God we’ll sit down, we’ll eat and drink together. (see Luke 14:15; 22:16, 30)

As I argue in the book, that’s way more than just referring to a temporary millennial kingdom. It’s talking about the ultimate kingdom of God we’ll live in forever. So, there are countless misconceptions about heaven. I just think the devil has kind of messed with us in this area.

Nancy: Well, you’ve spent a lot of time pondering and studying Scripture, which is what you’ve helped us to be able to do with some of these wonderful resources on heaven. One of those resources is one we’re making available to our listeners this week.

It’s a beautiful devotional book. Some of it’s taken from other writing you’ve done on heaven. You have a massive tome on Heaven. Maybe our listeners are not quite ready to read that one, but this one will whet your appetite.It’s called Fifty Days of Heaven. 

It’s fifty short reflections that bring eternity to light and that paint some of the vision and the picture of what you have learned from some of your study on heaven. It also addresses some of the questions that people have about heaven.

So we’ll tell you at the end of this program how you can get a copy of that book. It’s one I highly recommend to you. We’d love to send it to you as our way of saying “thank you” when you support this ministry of Revive Our Hearts with a gift of any amount. 

Now Randy, in your different books on heaven, you address a lot of questions. What are some of the most common questions that people ask you about heaven? Start with one and tell us how you respond to it. 

I know you’re not the ultimate answer man, but you’ve soaked a lot in the Scripture about this topic—more than most anybody I know. Start with a question that you hear often, things people wonder about heaven, and help us get an answer from the Scripture.

Randy: Well, here’s one I hear all the time: “Will there be animals in heaven, and especially our beloved pets?” Okay. So, I have to answer that in two ways. My answer is, “Probably not in the present heaven.”

So when we die, and somebody talks about their dog having crossed “the rainbow bridge,” or whatever . . . But the present heaven, I don’t see any evidence that there are animals in the present Heaven other than there is evidence there are horses in heaven that come out of heaven, which means they were in heaven before they come out of it, ultimately.

So you could say, “Well, if there are horses, could there be other animals?” And some people say, “Oh, that’s probably just figures of speech, there are probably not real horses.” It would be very easy to say it without saying “horses.” Is that misleading people if there aren’t horses in heaven? 

But for sure there are animals on the new earth. That’s where I say the ultimate heaven will be on the new earth, and there I have to explain that sometimes to people, because they’re like, “What are you talking about!?” 

“New earth? Isn’t that Jehovah’s Witnesses that believe in a new earth? We don’t believe in the new earth.” Well, we better believe in it, because it’s right there in the Bible! It’s in the last two chapters of the Bible, it’s in Isaiah 65, it’s referred to in 2 Peter 3:13, and no, it’s not just Jehovah’s Witnesses who believe in it.

And also, remember that people in a cult can believe something and that thing can be right. Or they can say they believe in a new earth, but what they believe about it can be misguided or wrong and certainly how you get there.

So what I have to explain to people then is that the new earth is a real, true earth just like our new bodies will be real bodies that will eat and drink. So, on this true, real new earth, would it be surprising that God would have animals there?

Well, we know that He does, because these Old Testament passages that talk about the new earth, including Isaiah 65, speak of animals being on that new earth. And it would make perfect sense, anyway, because when God made the first earth, did He make a mistake when He made animals? 

Did He make a mistake when He put animals on the ark and made a covenant—not only with people, but with animals with all living things? So, yes, there will be animals on the new earth. Now whether He will raise our specific pets or not, I don’t know. 

I think Romans 8:20–23 makes very clear that the whole creation groans in suffering awaiting the resurrection of God’s children that will make all things right. And when He says the whole creation—not just people but the whole creation—is suffering, what else besides animals is involved in that suffering?

And so, I think He’s suggesting that some animals who have suffered will be on that new earth, and that being the case, why not might God include our beloved animals among those animals that were alive in this world under the curse? I think He probably will. That’s not for sure, but I think He will.

Nancy: Here’s one thing I’m hearing. I’m not an animal person here on this earth, my sweet husband is. I know you and your precious Nanci are and have been. But it makes me think that in the new earth and the eternal heaven, even people like me are going to become animal lovers. We’re going to appreciate and value that.

Randy: Yes, and that makes perfect sense. Because think of how God says in Romans that God reveals Himself in His creation. Romans 2 makes that clear: God has revealed Himself in His creation. 

Well, what that means is that we see the beauty of God in flowers, and we see the beauty of God in trees. I’m here in Oregon. I’m looking out and all I see is green trees and a blue sky and a palm tree that Nanci planted years ago, that actually grows in Oregon (because she loves Hawaii). She may ultimately be on the new Maui or something on the new earth! 

So we look around us and we see the things that people build (and they’re created in God’s image). There’s beauty in what people build as they’re being creative like God is. So, I think we’ll see God in everything on the new earth, and He intends for us to see Him in everything—except the sin and how the world is tarnished by sin in this world.

So, I think yeah, I think people that have either had a fear of animals or dread or an indifference toward them—or they aren’t really what they like the most—I suspect they’ll see the beauty of God in animals.

Nancy: I love that, and my husband is going to be happy to hear that you said that! Because he just doesn’t understand how I don’t get the animal thing.

Randy: You know, I think of otters. I was talking to some people last night about this. Nanci and I used to watch all these animal videos. She would literally during an average day probably text me five times linking me to a short video on an animal or something, and she just loved otters.

You think about otters, and what do these creatures do? First of all, they’re the ones that invented water slides! They eat and drink and swim and slide down water slides. They also reveal something about God: a playfulness in God and just a pure pleasure and happiness in God.

Nancy: Enjoyment. 

Randy: Yes. Not that I think that eating and drinking and swimming around all day is His prescription for us as human beings, but we can sure enjoy it in an otter, and occasionally we need to be doing it too.

Nancy: You see that description of God in the book of Job [especially Job 38:7 and parts of chapters 37–39], where it talks about Him. There’s that playfulness, that enjoyment of God in His creation. I love that! 

Can you just for a moment . . . Do we know where this new earth is, and does it have any connection to this present earth?

Randy: Yes, here’s what we know: 2 Peter 3 says the whole earth is going to be destroyed, and it talks about with fire and the elements melting. Now, if that was the only passage you have, you’d say, “Okay, well that’s it. That’s the end of the earth!”

But the exact same passage goes right on to say in verse 13 that therefore “we are looking forward to new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells” (NASB). Okay, so I think the analogy we have in Scri nm, yf j55`edxr’s necessary for the resurrection.

So I think the best way to think of the new earth is simply the old earth resurrected. You say, “But wait! The old earth was destroyed!” Yeah, like our bodies can be destroyed and raised, and that’s no problem for God.

So, older, destroyed . . . whether He just reassembles the molecules or the remains and shapes that into the new earth or however He does it. So, right now, I think the answer is, the new earth does not exist. It’s not anywhere yet because it hasn’t been fashioned and created yet. Iuygfc

But in a sense, our best anticipation of the new earth is the old earth that we’re living on right now. Just as our new bodies will not be non-bodies, they’ll be our old bodies with all the features of those bodies but made perfect. So the new earth will be the old earth, but no longer under the curse, no longer in sin, no longer suffering.

Nancy: Well and those new bodies, Philippians 3 tells us, will be glorified like His glorious body So it’s not just going to be like new and improved old bodies. There’s a whole new body He is creating—re-creating. 

Randy: Exactly! And His resurrection body is where He said, “Look at me! I’m not a ghost. A ghost does not have flesh and bones as I have.” (see Luke 24:39) So, Jesus’ resurrection body had flesh and bones. Presumably, then, His glorified body would be that new body the apostles saw and we’re told about in Scripture.

But then, glorified in His ascension and then we also will have glorified bodies, but they will still be bodies! They won’t be non-bodies. And that’s where, when you have people after the resurrection sitting down and eating a great feast, well, they have physical bodies and they're eating real food. 

Jesus gave us a foretaste of that in those forty days that He walked around, resurrected, where He actually ate and drank with the disciples. He fixed breakfast for them at least once on the shore, we’re told in John 21:9. Yes! So we have so much to look forward to!

Nancy: One more question. I want to go back to 2 Peter 3:13, “. . . based on his promise, we wait for new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness dwells” (CSB) That’s something to think about.

And I just want to ask this question on behalf of someone who’s listening and God is sparking hunger and longing in their heart. But they’re wondering, “How can I know that I will spend eternity in that New Heaven and that new earth with that new glorified body? How can I know for sure that I have eternal life and will be with Christ forever in that new earth?”

Randy: The answer to that is clear, biblically. In 1 John 5, this is how you can know that you have eternal life, that you believe in Christ His Son, that He has sent. John 3:16, “God so loved the world, that he gave his only [begotten] Son, that whoever believes in him. . .” that means to trust in, to have faith in Him, to believe that what He did for you on the cross was sufficient for you. When you repent of your sins, confess your sins to the Lord that He will forgive you for them, fully, and that includes not only past sins but, yes, even future sins all sins cleansed by Him.

Second Corinthians 5:21 says, “[God] made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might [be made] the righteousness of God in Him.” (NKJV). And think of that in which righteousness dwells . . . It won’t just be that there won’t be sin on the earth anymore, there won’t be sin in our hearts.

The theologian Paul Helm says, “We will no longer sin, we will no longer want to sin, and we will no longer want to want to sin!” That day’s ahead of us! But for the person right now who doesn’t know Jesus, simply trust Him, who He is, what He did for you on the cross. Just ask Him to be your Savior and Lord, and that’s a prayer that He’s always eager to answer!

Nancy: I’m going to ask you in just a moment to pray for us, Randy, and to pray that God would give in the hearts of those who do know Christ a greater sense of anticipation and eagerness about that day—those resurrected bodies, that new heaven and new earth.

And then also to pray for those listening who don’t have that relationship with Christ, that today might be a day of true faith, repentance, and salvation. Before Randy prays, I know your interest has been piqued and your heart has been prompted—as mine has been—to ask more questions, to consider more things. 

We ought to think deeply and long and hard and wonderfully—to our edification and encouragement—about what Scripture says about heaven. Maybe go back to Revelation 21 and 22 as Randy did those years ago at his mother’s bedside, and read those through those chapters. It’s not the end of the story, it’s the beginning of all eternity! Read there.

And then this book Fifty Days of Heaven that Randy has written, fifty devotionals—Reflections That Bring Eternity to Light. We want to make this available to you, and we will when you give us a call or contact us. 

Call us at 1-800-569-5959 to request your copy of this Fifty Days of Heaven devotional.It’s a beautiful book, one you may want to share with somebody you know who doesn’t know Jesus or somebody you know who is facing death in the days ahead, and you want to help them contemplate.

In fact, this copy I have in my hand here I purchased recently because I have somebody in mind I want to send it to who’s elderly and not far from ending this life. I think it would be a blessing to them to meditate on it. 

So we’re making that available to you as you give a gift of any amount to help support the ministry of Revive Our Hearts, where day after day we’re helping women in particular, around the world, know how they can know Jesus and be assured that they have the gift of eternal life!

Dannah: In addition to Randy’s devotional Fifty Days of Heaven, we also have information on how you can order Randy’s larger volume titled Heaven: A Comprehensive Guide to Everything the Bible Says about Our Eternal Home. That’s linked in the transcript of today’s program at ReviveOurHearts.com.

And a special word of thanks to our sponsors today . . . “Wait”. . . you may say, “Revive Our Hearts sponsors?” Well, yes! It’s our Revive Partners. They believe in what Revive Our Hearts is up to so much that they’re willing to commit to pray for us, to spread the word about Revive Our Hearts, and to support us with at least $30 a month.

Recently Patricia, who’s a Revive Partner, wrote to say, 

I praise God and love you all for the effect you have on my life! Finding the Lord in His Word for my daily strength is what will get me home. Thank you for your work!

Thank you, Patricia. I hope you’re enjoying the resources we’re sending you as a Revive Partner! If you’d like more information on becoming a Revive Partner, check out ReviveOurHearts.com, or call us at 1-800-569-5959.

Tomorrow we’ll hear from a widow who learned not to crave sympathy from others. I hope you’ll be back for Revive Our Hearts.

Nancy: And now, Randy, let me just ask if you would close this conversation by praying for us. 

Randy: Father, thank You so much for who You are! Your love for us is so great that You—Father, Son and the Holy Spirit—agreed together from eternity past that rather than watch us go to hell, that You would provide the way to heaven through the greatest sacrifice and the greatest suffering there has ever been, in Jesus. Thank You that He did that for us, and Lord help every person who doesn’t know You to realize the price has been paid, that they cannot pay the way themselves. They don’t have the capacity to do it, but You already paid the way, and this is Your grace that offers it to us.

Help everyone to realize they’re not excluded, that if their heart is moved toward You, that is the movement of Your Holy Spirit drawing them to You. And we pray that You would help them to place their faith in You and to be assured of their salvation and relationship with You, and that they will have eternal life! 

And Father, as all of us anticipate what it will mean to spend eternity with Jesus, I first want to thank You that You’re here with us, here in this world. We don’t have to wait until we die to see You at work and to know You are with us. 

Thank You that You have been with me as my dearest friend since You took Nanci home to be with You, and that every day I sense Your presence. Your Word says that You are in me, above me, beneath me, around me. And thank You for being with me. But thank You, Lord, for the day that’s coming where we will all see You face to face! Where Revelation 22 says, “They shall see His face.” And they will behold Him with their own eyes. As Job said, “Lord, that his Redeemer would come and that he would behold Him on the earth with his own eyes.” And Job said, “I and not another.” It will really be me, and it will really be my Redeemer, and it will really be all the people of God throughout the ages.

Father, as C. S. Lewis said, that this is the story that goes on forever, where every chapter is better than the one before. We look forward to that world! And Lord, if we ever are tempted to question the extent of Your love for us, help us to see those outstretched arms and the hands that are scarred, that have proven once and for all how great Your love for us truly is. Thanks for Your redeeming work! 

Thanks for Nancy, Revive Our Hearts, for this program and the ministry and everything that’s done. I pray, Lord, that would bless them, provide for them financially, and empower them by Your Holy Spirit to do the work You’ve entrusted to them. We pray this in Jesus’ name, amen.

Reminding you that you’re a pilgrim on your way to your final home. Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth invites you to discover freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ.

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