Encouraging Your Pastor

Dannah Gresh: Sometimes church members hold their pastor and his family to a higher standard. Pastor’s wife Mandy Love says she and her husband, Stephen, have tried to manage those expectations.

Mandy Love: From the beginning, we have been very honest. We say, “We are broken yet hopeful worshipers, and that defines who we are. We are broken, just like you. We are right there with you.”

Dannah: This is the Revive Our Hearts podcast with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, author of “Let’s Go to Church!” for October 21, 2022. I’m Dannah Gresh.

Well, my friend, you are in for a treat today. Here at Revive Our Hearts, we want to do everything we can to encourage you as a church member to minister to and be a blessing to your pastor or pastors and to their families and to other spiritual leaders in your life. It’s part of our emphasis here during Pastor Appreciation Month.

We thought it might be helpful to just talk with some pastors and their wives about their perspective on what’s an encouragement and a blessing to them. Joining us in the studio today are two couples. 

First we have Stephen and Mandy Love. Stephen is the lead pastor of Redemption City Church in South Bend, Indiana, just across the Michigan state line from the Revive Our Hearts headquarters. 

[To Stephen:] Several of our staff attend your church.

Pastor Stephen Love: Right.

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: And then Joe and Becky Fant. Joe, you’re the senior pastor of Community Baptist Church, also in South Bend, and also a church where some of our Revive Our Hearts staff attend. 

Pastor Joe Fant: That’s right, yes.

Nancy: I want to start out by reading something somebody sent me by email last night. It said:

After hundreds of years, a model preacher has been found to suit everyone. He preaches exactly twenty minutes and then sits down. He condemns sin, but never hurts anyone’s feelings.

He works from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. in every type of work, from preaching to custodial service. He tithes weekly to the church and stands ready to contribute to every good work that comes along.

He is twenty-six years old and has been preaching thirty years. (laughter) He is tall and short, thin and heavyset, and handsome. He has one brown eye, one blue, hair parted down the middle—the left side dark and straight, the right brown and wavy. (laughter)

He has a burning desire to work with teenagers and spends all his time with older folks. He smiles all the time with a straight face because he has a sense of humor that keeps him seriously dedicated to his work. He makes fifteen calls a day on church members, spends all his time evangelizing the unchurched, and is never out of the office. (laughter)

Nancy: As I read that I thought, We laugh, but it’s kind of sad, too, because it depicts that there are expectations for pastors, pastors’ wives, and youth pastors (we could throw in there, worship and music leaders) to be everything . . . to be this “total everything, a perfect combination of all qualities of pastors. 

I’ll throw this question open to you pastors or your wives. Do any of you ever feel a sense of expectations that are maybe not totally realistic from some of the people in your church?

Pastor Joe: I think sometimes people view the pastor as somebody who is more than human, or depending, maybe even less than human. When we interact with our church we do sometimes get that feeling that maybe people don’t feel that we struggle.

I remember one time in a Bible study, the week before I was preaching on a passage, I asked a prayer request because I was working through a really hard passage. I said, “I’ve been working through this for several hours and I’m still having a hard time getting a grasp of it. Would you pray for me this week?”

And I had someone come up to me afterward and say, “I didn’t know that you study. I just thought you knew all this stuff!” (laughter) You know, I do think there are some expectations on us that sometimes you say, “Okay, I think maybe they’re looking to me as something more than I am. Honestly, maybe even a hybrid messiah complex in their life. It’s looking to the pastor to do something that I was never intended, I was never created to do. Yeah, some of the expectations are a little bit much. 

Becky Fant: Yes, I think the expectations are actually from without and even within. I think we could easily be tempted to put expectations on ourselves if we are prone to pride. You know, just remembering ourselves that we are human and that there is only one Savior, and we are not Him.

So I think it’s just even reminding ourselves to live within our human limits and know that we are human. We can’t change hearts, we can’t be everywhere at once, we can’t please all people. We get tired. All those things that we ourselves, wrestle against to put out our own lies that our heart and our mind would want us to believe, in our pride, that we can do those things.

So we’re wrestling against it ourselves, and then maybe when other people add that expectation on to you . . . Maybe even they don’t say it, but in some ways they inadvertently communicate to you to take that upon yourself. 

So you definitely do your pastor a service by allowing him to be human, and even reminding him of that. I think you definitely are helping him against his own struggle with pride if you just remind him, “Hey, you’re human . . . and that’s all right.”

Dannah: Stephen, Mandy . . .

Mandy: Just going back, thinking through our journey of church planting. When we first started on our journey of church planting, and coming in and meeting all of these people who were anticipating our arrival and the start of this new church and excited to be a part of this, I think that is when, for me, there is an expectation to make that great first impression. 

Stephen and I are blessed to have four little ones ten and under. The youngest is just four. So for me there is that internal struggle of, “Okay, children, here is your opportunity to shine! Show these people that you’ve got great parents and they are going to be okay at this church with this leadership, with this pastor!” 

Because the people were just getting to know us and, honestly, they were almost interviewing us on whether or not they wanted to be part of this new church plant, if this is where the Lord was calling them.

So for me, that was a wrestle in the beginning for sure! It could get to the point where it was crippling, because we are broken and our children are little sinners,and we are sinners. Just because the Lord has called us to South Bend to start a church and my husband to be the pastor, that does not mean that we are superhuman.

The Lord has used Acts 14:15 to encourage me so often, where Paul and Barnabas are on their missionary journey and the people are tempted to think of them more highly than they ought. And they say to the people, “We are just like you!” 

And that’s what I want to say, myself, “I am just like you. My children are just like your children. We are sinners. We fail, and we ourselves are broken.” It’s a battle of the flesh, because you want to have that great first impression. You want to show people that, “We’ve got it together!” Right? That’s a human condition, I think, that we have to fight against. 

Dannah: Yes, so true.

Pastor Stephen: Yes, I think everyone has touched on this so far. I think it’s a battle between the internal and the external. There are so many voices in my own head to try to prove that I’m actually using my time in an efficient manner, and like filling up my time, because it’s not a typical nine-to-five job.

You have weekends; you have early hours, late hours. So there are a lot of internal pressures, like, “Well, Stephen, you have to do x, y, and z because people are viewing you in a certain light as a pastor. I’ve got internal voices there which sometimes can be a negative voice. 

I think about a time when we were out of town and we received five or six phone calls. They were all emergency situations, like, “This has to be resolved right now!” And that was a time in which I was like, “Goodness gracious, this is a lot! Are we supposed to be doing all of this stuff? Is that my role as a pastor to be filling in all these gaps (so to speak). Or is my role as a pastor to equip the saints for the work of the ministry and then allow the body of Christ to come alongside and do what the body of Christ is supposed to be doing?”

So again, that internal/external. I don’t know if the Bible ever calls pastors to do what a lot of pastors are typically doing in their day-to-day life. At the same time, that pressure is real to make yourself “worthy” of the position which the Lord has called you to.

Again, on any given day I don’t know if it’s more internal than external, but I think the average is both are sort of fighting for that position.

Dannah: So good.

Nancy: I know you both are couples who really love the churches where God has placed you, and you have congregations who love you, so I don’t want to reflect negatively in any sense. But you’ve pastored in different churches in different settings.

What are some of the expectations, maybe, that you’ve run into from time to time, that you have found not very realistic?

Dannah: Taking into account that your congregation members may be listening to your answers! 

Pastor Joe: I’ll give you a perfect example. I think a pastor in his heart--if he’s walking with God, if he’s got the heart of a shepherd—he wants to meet all of these needs. So it’s not a matter of wanting to. 

I remember one Sunday someone came up to me and said, “Pastor, I was really disappointed that you didn’t visit me in the hospital this week. I didn’t even know that they were in the hospital. So my first thought was, “I’m so sorry, I didn’t even know you were in the hospital.” And they said, “Well, I posted on Facebook.”

I think there’s an expectation, sometimes, that pastors are mind readers. Like, “If I’m struggling, I don’t necessarily need to go for help. My pastor should just have the expectation of knowing that I’m struggling—whether it’s physically, whether it’s spiritually, whether it’s my marriage—even though I don’t call out and ask for help, my pastor should know!”

I just went to James 5:14, that verse, and I said, “he command is to the church to ‘call for the elders [pastors] of the church, if there’s anyone sick among you.’ If I would have known, I would have loved to come minister to you or for our church to be a ministry to you in any way that we can.” 

I remember that very specifically as sticking out, and thinking, “Okay, I’m just going to have to recognize that I can’t read people’s minds; our church is hopefully going to recognize that as a pastor I can’t read their minds.” That’s an example.

Dannah: That’s a really good example, because I think we forget sometimes, when James 5:14 says to call the elders to come and pray for you, we have to initiate that, and we have to want the prayer, we have to want the ministry, the healing.

Also, when you mentioned that passage, I can’t help but think that doesn’t say, “Call the pastor.” It’s plural, “elders,” calling for many of them. Going back to what you said, Stephen, a minute ago. You said your job as the pastor is to equip the body to minister, which means that I, as a part of my congregation, need to be receiving that equipping and that training, so that when I see the Facebook of someone I know, I don’t think, Oh, I hope the pastor saw that! Let’s call the pastor; let me text the pastor.

I enter into it. Either I have the gift of praying for someone who I know is in the hospital, or I have the gift of mercy, or I know somebody who does. I’m going to make sure they know, so that this person gets taken care of.

Because it’s us together taking care of that work. It takes pressure off of you, doesn’t it, when that kind of thing happens?

Pastor Joe: Yes, in a huge way! I think it’s this perfect combination of a desire to shepherd that’s always going to fall short. As Stephen and Becky and Mandy were saying, there’s also this internal expectation that I have for myself that I aspire to, but I will never be.

I don’t know about most pastors, but I will speak for myself. I want to quit the ministry every Monday, right!? (laughter) You step down from the pulpit and you say, “Man, I put so much time into that and that did not meet up to my expectations of wanting to preach or wanting to serve.” You feel inadequate. 

Or you go to visit someone in the hospital and they ask, “Why [is this happening]?” 

And you say, “I don’t know,” and “God is in control.” 

To not meet up your own expectations and others’ expectations can be crushing sometimes.

Dannah: Exactly. Nancy, you asked this same question some time ago of a dear friend of Revive Our Hearts, Bill Elliff, who served as a pastor for almost fifty years. Let’s listen to his response about unrealistic expectations.

Retired pastor Bill Elliff: I think one of those is: “The pastor is everywhere all the time.”

Nancy: That would make him, God.

Bill: That would make him omnipresent, absolutely! We’re everything but that. If you’re not at the bedside of every person . . . Honestly, I think about when I pastored a church of 120, I could do that well. 

But if the Lord blesses you with the opportunity to be in a larger setting, that’s absolutely impossible! You have to develop other ways to shepherd that flock. We still need to tend to the needs of people, but the old mindset of thinking that one man has to be there at every point is, I think, an unrealistic expectation.

I think another one is: The pastor can sacrifice his family on the altar of the ministry. It’s very, very easy to do that. Because of a man-fearing spirit—honestly—we would prefer others over the needs of our own family. 

I’ve come to the point, a lot of times, where I just have to say to people: “I have appointments.” I don’t divulge what all those are, but they are critical appointments. Time with God is an appointment. Time with my family is an appointment, and it has to have a priority place.

Dannah: Again, that’s Bill Elliff, who served for years as the senior pastor of the Summit Church in north Little Rock, Arkansas. He’s now retired, but that’s some good advice right there about keeping certain things top priority and not letting the demands of ministry crowd those things out. Stephen, has that been a struggle for you and for Mandy?

Pastor Stephen: This is a weekly thing! I’m going to keep it real, it’s weekly, because typically Friday is my day off, and so that’s family day. And man, I tell you, nine times out of ten, the problems that arise--they don’t arise Monday through Thursday, they come on Friday.

And so it’s sort of like this battle: “Okay, I can stay with my family on this day off, or I can meet whatever need pops up.” My bride has been very helpful in this, in being open with the congregation that Fridays are my day off, letting them know and communicating that.

But sometimes we’ll get a text or email that says, “I know this is your day off, but . . .” And I’m like, “Whoa, I’ve got to stop at that ‘but.’ This is my day off, I’ll ask for tomorrow.” That’s a real thing every week, because again, my internal voice. The congregation sacrifices. They volunteer, they have jobs and then they come out and sacrifice in their spare time to work with the congregation, to nurture and to serve, things like that.

That is sort of an internal battle for me because I think, Man, this is my day off, but at the same time some of these folks are sacrificing quite dearly for the work of ministry. I battle with that internally, and that’s a weekly struggle.

But I think it’s a helpful rhythm for my wife and I, my family and I, and for the church as well, to understand that pastors need rest as well. They need to be poured back into, they need to be free, they have family things to deal with as well, kids to raise, their own sin that they have to confess before the Lord.

That’s why I think it’s a helpful rhythm, for the longevity of the ministry, to say “no” on Fridays and continue to pour into my family on those days. But it’s a weekly struggle and a grind to be able to say no to some of those things that pop up.

Mandy: And, honestly, those phone calls . . . My phone gets blown up, too! And these examples are very clear in my mind. Oftentimes the husband will be blowing up Steve’s phone and soon after, the wife will blow up my phone, or vice versa.

There was a situation where it was a hard week . . . We work hard unto the Lord, and we praise God for that day of rest that is coming up. There’s a level of expectation for Stephen and I and our kids of excitement and joy that this day is coming! We plan for it. We are excited about it!

This was on a particular day where we had planned . . . It was a hard week, and part of the plan was rest, just putting a record on and dimming the lights and having a board game in the other room, or whatnot, and just sitting down! It was a night when we finally could sit. 

I took a deep breath, and it was in that instant [we got a request]. Honestly, this doesn’t happen every time, but in that moment I just cried! I was just like, “No!” I cried out to the Lord, “Lord, I just sat down!” It was in that instant . . . I can feel it; it’s still real. The Lord used that moment.

There are times when we will respond because we love the people of God, that’s why we do what we do. We want to be there, and we want to walk with them. But in this particular moment I’m sharing about I just cried. I was like, “I can’t, Lord. I don’t want to!” 

I got very protective of my husband and my children and that time, wanting to protect that with my everything! The Lord was gracious, though, and walked us through it and used that. I think so much of all of this is for our own sanctification, in bringing our own hearts to the Lord. 

He used that really to show me that He didn’t need me in that instance. I made a hard decision, in prayer, not to respond the way that I probably would have in the past, and to give it some time. It was a crisis situation.

The Lord used that to show me, “Mandy, I’m all powerful.” So in that instance the Lord was using that to test me, to be like, “Mandy, you don’t have to get up and respond and make a plan and rally.” You know, the whole nine yards. The Lord was telling me, “Be still, bring it to Me, and let me handle it.”

The Lord handled it, and it was beautiful! It was way more than what I would have done in my own strength. In that particular instance, the Lord used it to teach me a lesson about rest and allowing the Holy Spirit to work in the people of God, because we all have the Holy Spirit. So, asking the Lord to work outside of my own hands.

Dannah: I love that. That’s just so important! God rested. I’m guessing He didn’t actually need to, Him being omnipotent and all. Maybe the only reason He rested was to model it for us, I don’t know. But He commands it of us, that we rest. 

And on Sundays, we show up. You guys feed us, you nurture our souls, we go out for dinner with our friends, and we rest and we rest and we rest. You serve us on those days. What are some specific ways that members of your congregation have served you on your day of rest? Give us some ideas. How can we make that day of rest a blessing for you? How can we serve you?

Becky: I have an idea. If you have something you need to talk to your pastor about, don’t use this as a business hour, like, “Can I meet with you this week at this time?” or “Can you remember this one thing?” We always tell people, “You have to email us, because we’re not accountable for anything you tell us on Sundays. We’re not going to remember it, we’re just not!”

“Could you send that to us in an email or a text message, because right now, we’re trying to worship as well, to be honest” Maybe just waiting for your comments and the things that you want to talk to your pastor about. Don’t do it on a Sunday. Save it for another time—maybe not even Monday. Give him a little time to recover.

If you have a concern, a criticism, a complaint . . . Sometimes even if you just sit on it for a while, you might be able to let go. It might not even be something that you need to bring up to him. But maybe just not the minute the service is over, in the lobby, cornering him and sharing that with him. Give him some time.

And then, if we’re talking about protecting the day off, don’t do those texts. Like Stephen said, “I know it’s your day off, but . . .” If at all possible, maybe really do protect those times for your pastor.

Pastor Joe: I take Mondays off. Stephen takes Fridays off—which I think is awesome! Mondays I’m pretty much dead to the world in the morning. I slowly become human about lunchtime or so. 

One thing that’s been interesting . . . I remember when we lived in North Carolina, we went over for dinner to a guy’s house who was a cabinetmaker and a cabinet installer. He built beautiful custom cabinets and installed them in people’s homes. 

We went in and they were in the middle of a house remodel they’d been working on for about a year. Their cabinets didn’t have doors on them; they had little curtains over them. I was like, “Oh man, look at your cabinets! Is that some sort of new fashion or something over your cabinets?”

He’s like, “No, I hung these cabinets about six months ago. I just haven’t gotten to the point of putting doors on them.” And his wife made a comment which I thought was interesting, kind of in jest. It wasn’t made in malice at all, but it was just something to the effect of, “Yeah, he has to install other people’s cabinets first before he comes home.” 

That came back to me a couple years ago in ministry. I thought, If we’re not careful, we can do that spiritually. Where we can say (and Becky’s good at keeping me accountable in this, especially with our kids), I can spend day all day and all week and evenings and early mornings doing Bible studies and discipling and pouring into families that are hurting and grieving, that just lost loved ones, all of those are good things. But if I’m not careful, I’m going to come home and my family is going to get the spiritual leftovers. And not only that, they’re going to get my emotional leftovers. They’re going to get less than shepherding, in my own family.

When this really came in my heart was when I was not doing a good job at this. Honestly, there was probably—“neglect” may be a little bit of a strong word—but there was some spiritual neglect in our home. It kind of got brought to a head, and I had to sit down and ask forgiveness from my wife. 

I said, “Listen, we need to make family Bible time a priority. Honey, I’m so sorry that I have not been paying attention to your shepherding heart the way that I need to.” I say all that to segue into this.

One of the reasons why I think that day off is so important is because it gives us, as a pastor, a day to focus and be husband, father, shepherd in the home. Probably ninety percent of pastoring is a private, confidential ministry. It happens at a coffee shop. It happens in my study as I’m poring over the Word. It happens in my office as I counsel. It’s a private, confidential ministry that a lot of people will never see. 

So, it’s important that I reserve those times for my family, to say, “This day off isn’t a day where I’m just vegging on the couch! It’s not my soap opera and bon bons day!” This is a day where, hopefully, I can reset my soul, I can reset my heart, and I can spend quality time shepherding my family. Because if I lose my family, I lose my ministry. Right? It’s a qualification, that if I cannot manage and shepherd my home, how can I care for God’s church? (see 1 Tim. 3:4–5)

And so, actually, I would encourage anybody who is listening to this, protect your pastor’s home time, recognizing that that will make him a better pastor to the church. If you protect his home, then he will have the energy to push back and press into the church body in a greater way. 

The practical ways that our church has done that is just to try the best they can to protect that time. I’m very thankful!

Nancy: And the fact is, if your family is what God wants it to be, you’re going to be better as a pastor or a youth pastor or a wife than if your family’s crumbling—the priorities, they’re not going to be met and ultimately you’re not going to be as effective.

Dannah: Okay, Joe, you brought it up. You said that there was a time when you recognized maybe you weren’t shepherding Becky’s heart the way you needed to because your to-do list was taking over. So it begs the question: Becky, do you guys fight? 

Pastor Joe: That’s a great question!

Becky: No! I would fight if he weren’t so spiritual! (laughter) He doesn’t want to fight. He just kind of quenches it with his . . .

Pastor Joe: Well, hang on a second, I’m a peace-faker a lot of times. I would rather avoid conflict than deal with the issue. My wife is a peacemaker: she’d rather hit the issue head on and say, “Let’s get this over so we can have peace.” So we’ll put it there.

Becky: Yeah! He just is very godly to say, “Okay, let’s just talk this through.” But, I don’t know, we have times where we have to hash things through, for sure, but I don’t know. [to Joe] Do we fight?

Pastor Joe: We are the products of counselors who have spoken into our lives at a very young age. We are very blessed to have some older couples who sat us down when we were first married and invested in us.

One of the greatest pieces of advice that we got was, “When there’s an issue, sit down at the table and say, “Okay, we’re going to make two promises. Number one, we’re going to be honest and, number two, we’re not going to be offended. And we’re not going to leave until we’ve talked through this.” And we’ve done that so many times.

We also made a commitment: We don’t go to bed angry, so we don’t let the sun go down on our wrath. (see Eph. 4:26) So if there’s something that’s happening . . . we’ve been up to the wee hours of the morning talking through things.

Becky: Or we both agree to table it until the next day. 

Pastor Joe: Or we both agree to say, “I think what we need is, we need to discuss this tomorrow, but I’m promising we’re going to discuss it tomorrow.”

Dannah: Right.

Pastor Joe: We can discuss things openly. I think we’ve fostered that early on. 

Becky: We’re pretty honest with each other. 

Pastor Joe: But I don’t think that we fight in the sense of fighting, no.

Dannah: You fight fair.

[Joe and Becky laugh and agree.]

Nancy: Do you think it surprises people sometimes that as a couple or as a family you would have problems or issues of your own?

Mandy: No. 

Pastor Stephen: No. I’m not surprised at all, and I’m so grateful for the body of believers at our church! We say, “We are broken yet hopeful worshippers, and that defines who we all are.” From the beginning, we have been very honest. That’s who we are.

“We are broken, just like you. We sin just like you.” I feel like we have been really blessed, even in the expectation from our body, the church, from expecting us to be holier than thou. I don’t think they have many expectations of that. Because from the beginning we have said, “We are broken! We are right there with you.” Would you agree with that?

Pastor Stephen: I would definitely agree with that. They would not be surprised. I mean, Mandy and I are just open people in general. And so, even when we do premarital stuff, we tell the people, “Look, we had an argument right before y’all showed up to our house.”

Mandy: Right before! (laughter)

Pastor Stephen: “And we’re still kind of working through that right now, so we can kind of use your premarital counseling to work through our issues!” But they would not be surprised.

What Mandy said, “Broken, yet hopeful.” Our congregation knows that’s who we are. There have been those moments even when I’m preaching and I get to a moment where I confess something that I’ve done, those have been the moments where I think I’ve received the most feedback from the congregation.

That becomes quite dangerous, like a double-edged sword, like, “I’m going to confess my sin every week . . . I’m having a bad day!” (laughter) They’re like, “Hey, why don’t you just preach the Word of God?” 

In those moments I do that intentionally because:
a) I’m a sinner. The Bible says confess your sins to one another (James 5:16) and I don’t think pastors are exempt from that.
b) To showcase to the congregation that I need their prayers on a regular basis. I need them interceding on my behalf as their pastor on a regular basis. So those have been sweet moments.

To answer your question, no, they wouldn’t be shocked if they found out we have some issues within our own household.

Nancy: So you’re saying, “Really, we’re members of this body, too. We’re brothers and sisters and we need the body in our lives.”

Dannah: Yes, also I’m hearing the differences in personalities of these two couples here.

Pastor Stephen: Yeah. 

Dannah: Because, really, every pastor’s marriage is like every other marriage. There are different personalities that come into it. Bob and I tend to be a little more high conflict. Joe, when you were talking about: “We’re going to sit here and we’re going to talk it out, our counselors were saying, “Everybody go to their own corner of the room.” (laughter) That’s okay, too! 

Sometimes where we needed coaching was that it was okay to leave things unresolved for now, while both of you went to the Lord and calmed your hearts down and then come back and revisit this.

I want to talk about your kids. So, the microscope that a pastor’s kid grows up under can be really difficult. Have your kids experienced that? Are they feeling that?

Mandy: You know, there was a reason I did not want to be married to a pastor, and it was because my mom grew up in a pastor’s household. That microscope, those eyes were such a real thing that I was like, “Whoo, I don’t want to do that!” 

Stephen, you need to answer this question, because honestly I am quick to feel that microscope and to feel that pressure and then make changes based on what people are seeing to perform in front of others. You know, let’s be honest.

Becky: Yes, that’s easy to do.

Mandy: My husband, who is also a pastor’s kid, has set the tone for family and has really led me in saying, “That’s not okay. Our children are children, and we’re going to let them be children.” And the Lord has been really sweet in our congregation to encourage us in that.

We have been in certain congregations where my children were being a little loud (I didn’t think they were being that loud). At one point they were five and under, four of them, just little. I’m sitting in the sanctuary and an usher would come and say, “Please remove the distraction.” And I was like, “Whoo! My children . . .”

Feeling that pressure, like we’re being watched and my children are being expected to act a certain way because of who their daddy is. When we church planted and when we started on this journey, my husband was very instrumental to say, “We’re not going to be that way.”

There was a time on a Sunday early on in our church plant where my son, my youngest, just ran up the aisle in the middle of the sermon because he was looking for Mommy. And of course, my heart starts beating really fast, and I’m like, “What just happened! Okay, breathe!”

We’re sitting in the front: “Sit here and be quiet please!” Daddy was preaching, and he didn’t even skip a beat, because we love children in our sanctuary. But the amount of people that came up to me after and said, “That blessed my soul, how you loved your son when he ran up there, and how you allowed your child to be a child.”

I was so encouraged by that, so the Lord has been so faithful to give us these little moments, but that’s honestly because of your leadership, Stephen, and your leading of me and saying, “We are not going to be that.”

Pastor Stephen: I have to be careful of the other pendulum swing, because I am a PK, a pastor’s kid. I grew up in an environment where my dad wasn’t that way, but you kind of just felt like the church was watching the kids, like me.

My dad was never overtly like, “Do this, do that.” He’s a strong person, now, don’t get me wrong. So I just kind of swing the other way from growing up in an environment where I’m kind of like, “I’m going to let the kids do whatever they want to do,” because I came out of that environment. That can be an error, as well.

But I think what Mandy and I are trying to do is, it’s almost every week where we tell the congregation, “We want your kids in service. They are not a distraction to the worship of Christ.” So, you know, we don’t want to then scream at our kids when they’re cooing or talking in church. We’re trying to exemplify like, “Hey, we want this. This is good for the body of Christ. This is sanctification for all of us, for the kids. We can see something in them that we don’t see in ourselves.”

And so, yeah, I kind of swing the other way, and Mandy and I kind of meet in the middle on that thing. I’m like, “Kids, do whatever you want to do in church!” That’s not healthy either. But it’s a growing experience. We love our kids; we want them to be kids. We want them to understand we are a ministry but at the same time the Lord is sanctifying their hearts too throughout this process.

Dannah: I’m thinking how important it is that we pray for you and for your kids. My husband isn’t a pastor, but he’s been in ministry leadership. I feel like at times when our kids were teens, a couple of our kids were oblivious to the microscope, but one of them particularly was very aware of it.

I feel like sometimes there was a sense in the other people in the community that, “Oh, that’s Bob and Dannah’s kids. They don’t need us. They have Bob and Dannah.” Do you ever feel that? How old are your kids?

Becky: Ours are ten, eight, six, and four. 

Dannah: So you’re not quite there yet. Do you have teenagers yet?

Mandy: No we do not. Ten is our oldest, so we have ten, eight, six and four. Oh, my goodness! 

Pastor Joe: No way! 

Mandy: That’s funny!

Dannah: Isn’t that interesting? Well, so I guess I’m talking about something that I’ve felt as a ministry leader while my kids were teenagers. I was praying, like, “God! Let somebody step up and minister to this child, because I cannot do it by myself!”

Becky: Yes.

Dannah: Are you sensing that yet as pastors, pastors’ wives? Do you pray that, hope that?

Mandy: Yes, there was actually a situation early on where a family called and said, “Hey, Stephen and Mandy, can we come pick up your older boys and take them out for ice cream and take them out to the park and get to know them?”

I think I cried when she called. I was like, “Yes! Of course!” Yes, we feel that. We have that desire for other people to get to know our children and to love them and to minister to them and to come alongside them. 

And so, yes it is a strong desire, and I can anticipate that even before they’re teenagers, because it takes a village to raise our children. And we talk about that even as they’re young.

And so, that is a big way of how people have ministered to us, in just seeking out our children apart from us and just wanting to get to know them.

Becky: It means a lot, for sure.

Pastor Joe: We use that phrase often at our church, if you need a village, then this is your village. Like, lift up your eyes in the corporate body, this is your village. Everyone is here because they love you, and they want what’s best for you.

And we pray that exact same thing, that there will be men and women in the church who will invest in our children as godly examples. Becky has made it a point in our home to say, “We do this because Jesus asks us to do this, because this is what the Bible says. We do this because we love Jesus, because we love God. And we do some other things because we’re Fants. Not everybody does the weird, quirky things that we have as our house rules, but this other stuff. We don’t do it because Daddy’s the pastor. There’s nothing that we operate in our home because Daddy’s the pastor. It’s because we love God and this is what God asks us to do.” And to say that out loud, hopefully, will remove that as much as possible.

Pastor Stephen: I want to touch on that a little, Joe, that’s so good, because as pastors’ families, we’re not hovering above the congregation. Everything the congregation needs, we need, because we are members of the congregation. 

And so, if your kids need some other parents to weigh in and correct, we need that, too. We are members, we are the body of Jesus Christ. And so everything the body needs, we need as pastors and families as well. 

Nancy: And doesn’t that highlight, too, the importance of people praying for your family, praying for your children? I wonder if in the congregation, people realize that the pastor’s family needs prayer as they raise their kids in the same way that you need prayer as you raise your kids. It’s going to be a work of God for those kids to have a heart for the Lord.

Dannah: Oh what a great reminder, Nancy, to all of us. We need to pray! Not only for the spiritual leaders in our church but for their children as well. In fact, in a moment I’m going to ask you to lead us in prayer along those lines.

But just a quick reminder to our listeners that this month in appreciation for your donation of any size we’ll send you the booklet by Nancy “Let’s Go To Church!”It’s a truly helpful resource that will give you creative ideas on how to honor and bless the spiritual leaders in your life.

In this booklet Nancy also coaches us on how to get the most out of our pastor’s teaching, and there’s our month-long prayer guide you can follow with some specific suggestions on how to pray for your spiritual leaders.

To make a donation visit ReviveOurHearts.com or call us at 1-800-569-5959. When you call, ask about Nancy’s booklet “Let’s Go To Church!”

If your plans have ever had to suddenly change, you know the emotional turmoil that can result when God moves you somewhere other than where you thought you’d be. On Monday, we’ll hear how God did that to none other than the apostle Paul. 

If you want to read ahead, feel free to check out Acts chapter 16, and then be sure to listen in next week. Now let’s pray with Nancy.

Nancy: Lord, how I thank You for these precious couples and so many others that I can think of who have pastored and shepherded my life over the years—godly men and their wives. And Lord, I can’t even imagine where I would be today without men who have preached the Word, who have prayed and cared for my soul and without the women who have stood behind those men and have been helpers and encouragers and supporters to them as their wives.

And Lord, as I have looked into the eyes of these couples, I thank You for them. I thank You for their faithfulness. We hear so many stories about those who are not faithful and those who are doctrinally impure, those who are failing to keep their spiritual vows as elders and pastors, those who are falling morally; and Lord, that breaks our hearts.

But we thank You that there are many, many who have not bowed the knee to the enemy, who have been faithful, who love You, who love Your Word, who are laying down their lives for Your sake, for Your kingdom’s sake and for the sake of Your church.

And what a reflection these around this table—and others—are of the shepherding heart of Christ, the Good Shepherd who lays down His life for the sheep. So Lord, I thank You for these men. I thank You for their wives. I thank You for their ministries. I pray, Lord, that You would lift up their hands, that You would strengthen them for the work, that You would pour Your grace into their lives, that You would meet with them in their studies as they dig into the Word and seek wisdom for how to feed the flock.

I pray that You would minister to them in their own walk with You, that they would not feed the flock at the expense of their own hearts and their own families. I pray for protection over their marriages, I pray that the evil one would have no inroad to in any way destroy these marriages or put a barrier between them. I pray, Lord, for the children represented between these couples. Lord, I pray for every one of these children, without exception, that they would know Christ and love Him and walk with Him and follow Him and that You’d call many of these kids into ministry themselves—perhaps some of the sons to be pastors, some of the daughters to be pastors’ wives. I pray that they will have seen something as their parents are in the ministry that will make them say, “That would be a joy!”

And, Lord, I pray that You would in the churches represented here and in all the churches our listeners represent, O, Lord, may You be glorified. May You give wisdom to the pastors, the deacons, the elders, those in spiritual positions of leadership to know how to lead the flock.

I pray for churches where there are issues that could be seeds of dissension or division. Oh Lord, would You resolve those in a biblical way. Would help these men to know how to deal with issues that occur in the church, issues where church discipline is needed. Would You give wisdom and courage and keep them from the fear of man. May they fear You more than they fear anyone or anything else.

I pray that You’d provide for their needs materially, and thank You that you’ve told us that we’re to minister to the material needs of those who minister to us spiritually, and for the privilege it’s been for me to invest materially in the lives of some around this table, and others in ministry. Lord, I pray that You would prompt others to do that for their pastors and their family, to give a check to take their mate out to dinner or helping with Christian schooling costs or whatever the opportunities may be.

Lord, help us to love and to honor and to lift up and respect and bless those that You have called to serve us as pastors, as spiritual leaders. Thank You for them. Encourage them, strengthen them, fulfill all of Your holy purposes in and through their lives, and may they be able, as, Hebrews says, one day to give account with great joy because we have heeded the Word as it was preached to us through their lips and their lives. We pray with thanksgiving in the name of Jesus, amen.

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth wants to help you encourage your spiritual leaders as they guide you to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ.
 

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