Radical Giving

Dannah Gresh: You and I know that when we see lightning, something’s coming next! (sound of thunder) That’s right, thunder! Here’s Randy Alcorn.

Randy Alcorn: You look at Scripture and you’re just struck by that lightning of God’s grace that produces the thunder of giving. If the thunder of giving isn’t there, it suggests that the lightning of God’s grace is not either.

Dannah: Welcome to the Revive Our Hearts podcast for Tuesday, November 29, 2022. I’m Dannah Gresh, and our host is Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, author of Choosing Gratitude. 

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: Welcome back to Revive Our Hearts and this wonderful conversation we’re having this week with author and my longtime friend, Randy Alcorn. We’re making available to our listeners this week his powerful, power-packed book called The Treasure Principle.

It’s a little book, but it is so full of rich insight into how we can discover the secret of joyful giving! So, Randy, thank you for joining us again today for this conversation on a matter that is so dear to Christ’s heart, but also dear to our hearts.

Randy: It’s great to be back with you again, Nancy.

Nancy: Randy, I’m just curious: you’ve talked and written so much about the subject of giving, the grace of giving, the joy that comes through giving, how to give, and talking particularly about investing our resources in kingdom ventures and the Lord’s work.

Do you remember how or when or why it was that early on you cultivated a heart and a love for giving? Like, where did this passion come from? Do you have any recollection of that?

Randy: Actually, I do. I remember it like it was yesterday. I was raised in an unbelieving home. I heard the gospel when I was a high school student, fifteen years old. I started reading voraciously. I read God’s Smuggler, I read The Hiding Place. I read a book by Richard Wurmbrand Tortured for Christ that the told the story of him as a pastor in Romania being persecuted, being tortured horribly, imprisoned. When I got to the end of the book, there was a place where you could send money to help persecuted Christians. 

Ultimately, that place was the Voice of the Martyrs, but it wasn’t called that yet. I learned how to get a money order (my mom showed me how), and I sent that money order off to this organization, and I continued to do it.

I took most of the money that I was making in summer jobs—sorting potatoes and planting broccoli and cauliflower and the kinds of things that I was doing—sent it, and had such incredible joy! Then my dad found out about it, and he was really mad!

He was an unbeliever. He thought I was wasting my money and that this was some kind of scam, but my mom—who wasn’t a Christian yet—respected the fact that that’s how I was choosing to use my money. So, yeah, that was when giving really first took hold in my life.

Nancy: And as you’re telling that, Randy, I’m saying to myself, “This is an evidence, a proof, of genuine salvation!” The fact that God had poured His grace into your heart, had changed your life and given you Himself . . . It sounds like you didn’t hear a sermon about giving. I’m sure you’ve heard many since. 

Randy: Yes. 

Nancy: You’ve given many since, but it’s almost reflexive when you realize how much God has done for you what He has rescued you from and how He has given Himself for you. 

Then gratitude and generosity, those are the two things that come springing out, pouring out, overflowing from that grace. So again, as we said in yesterday’s program, if we’re not generous and grateful people, it does leave it open to ask, to consider the question, “Have I really experienced the abundant grace of God in my life, or do I just have religion?”

Randy: Yes. Jesus appeared to Paul [called Saul] on the road to Damascus and said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting!” And it’s interesting, because who was Paul persecuting? Christians. And you would say, “Wait a minute! He’s not persecuting Jesus, he’s persecuting Christians!”

But see, this is the identity that Jesus has with His persecuted people. And so, in my giving to the cause of persecuted Christians, I was giving to the cause of Jesus . . . and I didn’t even know it! It’s, “Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also” (Luke 12:34). And the more I gave, the more my heart was with Jesus and His kingdom. 

Nancy: I love that!

Randy: Where there is giving, there is grace; where there is grace, there is giving. Jesus wants to come to the house of Zaccheus and Zaccheus ends up saying to Jesus, “I’m going to give away half of all that I have, and I’m going to pay back four times over everybody that I cheated”—and he had cheated a lot of people as the tax collector.

And Jesus says not just, “That’s a good idea,” or “That’s nice, that’s kind of you to do that, Zacchaeus.” No. He said, “Salvation has come to this house today.” (see Luke 19:1–9).Wow! Of course he wasn’t saved by doing the good work, but the good work was convincing evidence of the salvation that had just taken place in his heart.

When you have a transformed attitude toward giving away money and possessions, then that is a convincing evidence that salvation has come to your life. And likewise, any heart that has not been transformed like that suggests maybe really radical salvation has not taken place, or salvation hasn’t taken place at all. At the very least, the person does not yet have a supernatural presence of that transformation by the Spirit of God of your attitude and actions concerning money and possessions. People don’t just change like that on their own.

Likewise, for the rich young ruler, it was a sad thing that he walked away. Jesus loved him, but in his love for the man realized that . . . It wasn’t that Jesus had raised the bar too high by calling him to walk away from his money and possessions, to give them all to the poor. But that was actually a reasonable expectation in lordship.

Jesus doesn’t call all of us to that all the time, but He does call us to a recognition that it all belongs to Him. So, the rich young ruler is an example of many so-called Christians, I think, in our churches: he just holds on to everything he has (see Matt. 19:16–22).

He wants the whole package of salvation and a relationship with Christ without the inconvenient implications of what it means to recognize the ownership of God and the Lordship of Jesus, and to give over to Him whatever we used to think was ours.

You look at Scripture, and you’re just struck by that lightning of God’s grace that produces the thunder of giving. And if the thunder of giving isn’t there, it suggests, even in our churches, that the lightning of God’s grace is not. 

Why are some churches always experiencing inadequate resources? They don’t have enough finances to pay their pastors and staff, they have to always come back to the church and ask for more money, and the hearts of the people are not responsive. It says something about that church and the lack of the presence and power of Jesus there.

I think it’s a time for self-examination by church leaders and church members alike. In Acts 2:43–45, Scripture says, “Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.” (NIV)

Keep in mind this was voluntarily on their part. This was not socialism; it wasn’t a demand. It was just an overflowing reaction to the grace of God. They wanted to give!

Every day . . . they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. (vv. 46–47)

What was part of that healthy church that was expanding and growing all the time, where people saw the presence of God? A huge part of it was the presence of God’s grace exemplified in the giving by God’s people, the radical giving of God’s people!

Nancy: I love that you used the word “radical” there. I was thinking it just as you said it. You know, we’re not talking about measured, careful (and we do need to be careful) but just stingy or like, “I’ll give this little bit over here an maybe this little bit over here, but not anything that might radically alter my standard of living or what I can purchase without thinking about it.”

God’s grace in our lives is not a trickle! It’s not something that He just metes out to us one little teaspoon at a time. He has lavished His grace on us! And that’s why we want to seek to become lavish givers, radical givers! And you’ve talked a lot about that in this book The Treasure Principle.

To some people . . . I can remember an accountant who was helping me with my taxes one year, several years ago, and looking at the numbers. He was looking at what came in and what went out, saying, “You know, Nancy, this really just doesn’t add up!”

Because I had learned from Christ, and from my dad and mom, who loved radical giving . . . That had become just a part of the way I was raised, it’s the way I grew in grace. It’s not something to brag about. It was a joy! I get so much joy out of giving! 

But I can remember that accountant saying, “I’m just not sure how all this works.” Now, accountants are supposed to be sure how “all this works!” There was nothing nefarious going on. They were just saying, “How can you give this way and still have your needs met?!”

Well, grace has mystery in it. We’ve watched God provide—both of us have, our families have—in some supernatural ways when you can’t humanly explain it, when you give God the nod and you become reflexively generous. It’s not stupidly, but it’s your inclination.

In fact, I said to Robert when we were getting ready for this recording session today, “Honey, you might want to listen in on this recording session, because if you don’t, maybe by the end of this program I’m going to be wanting to give away everything we have!” Because this subject is so compelling!

And, thank God for Robert Wolgemuth, because he’s got a generous heart, he loves giving. We kind of can’t beat each other at this game. It’s not a game, but we both love it! And so, if one of us felt that the Lord was leading us to do something really radical in terms of our giving, we would pray about it, we would talk about it, but the other would give the blessing because we know that God blesses. 

There are things we can afford to do without. There are things we don’t think we can afford to do without, but that are worth doing without in order to pour into what God is doing in the lives of others in this world. 

So that word “radical” really speaks to my own heart. 

Randy: That’s very much the experience that [my wife] Nancy and I had in our marriage. There were times where we really stretched ourselves. You know, it’s common to have one partner be the one who is inclined to give more radically, just as one might be more inclined to share their faith. One might be more inclined to go down and help in homeless shelters. Everybody’s kind of moved in different ways. 

But she would often say when it was time for a special missions offering, “Okay! How much do you think we should give this time?”

And I would say, “Well how much do you think we should give?” We would come up with our figures, and she would kind of feel like, “Well, you seem to always want to do a bit more than I want.” We would talk that through. And graciously, kindly, we would usually go with whichever of us came up with more.

But I’ll never forget the time, one particular time, when she said, “So, how much do you think we should give to this special offering, to the church?” She came up with a really big figure, and it sort of stunned me!. I said, “Hey, yeah, let’s do it!” 

And then her response was, “I got you this time!” We love that!

There’s actually something like that in 2 Corinthians 8:1–9 where Paul is clearly playing the Macedonian Christians against the Christians in Achaia and was basically saying, “Don’t let them outdo you with their giving!”

Well, we trusted God in that process, and we were an encouragement to raise the bar for each other. And the last four years, Nancy would tell me, “Thank you for stretching me like you did (in certain areas, including giving).” 

Well, I said, “Thank you for stretching me the way you have!”

I mean, it’s been incredible! We learned to trust God through giving, and in the other areas of our lives. In her last four years, she mentored and discipled me in terms of her heart and attitude and trust and perspective related to a sovereign and loving God and His work in her life and in her cancer. 

I think of Acts 4:33–36, similar to Acts 2, where it talks about: 

With great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles' feet. (ESV)

And then the passage points out Barnabas by name as this one who sold his field and gave it all to the Lord. 

We have this wrong idea—based on a misinterpretation of Matthew 6, the first few verses where we say, “Well, Jesus says don’t do your works of righteousness (including giving and prayer and fasting) ‘to be seen by men.’” (see v. 1) And of course we’re not supposed to do it “to be seen by men.” 

But we need to remember that just five or ten minutes earlier in the Sermon on the Mount, the same message, Jesus said, “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and [honor] your Father in heaven.” (Matt. 5:14–16 NIV)

Not honor you, but honor your Father in heaven. And what that means is that there are times where we have got to make visible the works of righteousness. 

We need giving warriors in the church, not just prayer warriors but giving warriors. People need to see what giving is like in the same way that they need to see what faithful prayer is like, what faithful fasting is like, what parenting is like. We need examples of all these things, including giving.

So yes, we’ve got to balance it, making sure that we’re not doing it to be seen by men, but that we’re doing it before God as the Audience of One. But also showing people the way of giving. Because right now we have way more examples, I think, of prayer and mercy and helps and teaching in the church than we do of giving.

Nancy: Right. We want people to be pointed to the greatness and goodness of God as they see us being generous. And, certainly, in the kind of home where I grew up, that happened so much. I’m so thankful for that example of a generous dad and a mom who went with him. They went together, even in times of greater need.

Back in the early seventies, during that highly inflationary period, I can remember (I was in high school) my dad like challenging himself and my mom, and us kids kind of hearing that. “How can we give more?” not “How can we hold on to more?” “How can we tighten our belts and give more?” It was not so they would get credit because he was very careful about his giving being not something he boasted about or flaunted, but it was clear that that was the way he thought. 

Now, Randy, as we’re having this conversation, I can imagine—I’m sure—there are some listening, thinking, Well, I would love to give that way! I’d love to give more generously. I’d love to give to meet these needs in the body of Christ, but my mate isn’t quite on the same page. Maybe they’re a believer but they just are a little nervous about, “What are we going to do without this?”

Especially, we have wives listening to Revive Our Hearts who are being really inspired by this conversation, and they’re going to go home and say to their husband, “Honey, we need to empty out this account” or “We need to give more to that.” And maybe the husband isn’t quite so sure that he heard the same message from the Lord. How would you encourage, particularly a wife, in that situation, where maybe her husband isn’t quite as oriented that way yet?

Randy: I would say that when your husband is a believer-—really, truly does love Jesus, but maybe needs some more exposure to biblical truth in the area of giving, and also the practical, pragmatic benefits of giving—appealing to him on that basis.

For the unbeliever, it’s a more challenging situation. Having grown up in a non-Christian home, I saw this firsthand. I had the joy of leading my mom to Christ a couple of years after I became a Christian, when I was in high school.

My dad was an unbelieving tavern owner who had no place for God in his life. He despised the church! My mom took seriously 1 Peter 3:1, which says, “Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives.” (NIV) 

So I said to her, because she really wanted to give, “Mom, if you can come up with ways you could earn some money on the side, that Dad would see as belonging to you, you could give all of that to the Lord.”

Of course, properly speaking, just because she was a housewife, a stay-at-home mom, did not mean that she was not an equal contributor to the welfare of the family. But you often see these very unfair situations that women are in with husbands who think of themselves bringing home the money as if that’s the only part of what makes a house a home.

Another alternative for a wife of an unbeliever or even a believer who is very hesitant to give is to say this: “Look, I spend this much money on groceries, this much money on clothes. Do you mind if I get less expensive clothes, or whatever, and take the difference between what I’ve been spending and what I’ll be spending now and give that away?” or “I’ll get groceries that are just as good quality, but I’ll get more things on sale” whatever it is. 

You are a better wife because of the gospel and the truth of Christ! I think many, many unbelieving husbands will recognize that, even if with some hesitancy and ultimately give way to that and be influenced by that.

And is there such a time that a woman would say, “Jesus is my Lord, and He says I should do this, and so I’m going to do it. It’s not disrespect; it’s not disobeying you. It’s obeying God.” I think even sometimes communicating the reality that you’re under the lordship of Christ first and foremost is a wonderful example, even if sometimes it’s hard for a husband to hear.

Ultimately, years after my mom died, I had the privilege of leading my dad to Christ when he was eighty-five years old. But I’m convinced that my mom, through that generous spirit of putting God first .but also wanting to do everything she could to submit to my dad was primary in the reason that He came to faith in Christ, because of what he saw in her. Even when he said he didn’t like it, he saw these changes in her life, and it was beautiful!

Nancy: What a great testimony! And how important for that husband (maybe of somebody who is listening right now, to see in you as a wife with generous heart) not only in giving toward the church or toward other ministries, but a generous heart toward him! 

There aren’t many husbands who are going to resist or reject that. Then, of course, just prayer and waiting on the Lord to open and change his heart if He wants you to go beyond the level of obedience into greater sacrifice or into radical giving. 

Well, Randy, before we finish this discussion today, I want to mention that today is “Giving Tuesday.” It’s not some day on the calendar, but it’s something that Christian and non-Christian organizations alike—nonprofits, charities—have established. As we’ve done a lot of shopping, some of us, over Thanksgiving weekend, and a lot of consuming on ourselves, so this first Tuesday after Thanksgiving . . . For the last several years this has been established as a giving Tuesday, like, “Look for places to give to others.”

Over the past years, I’ll tell you, in my email inbox and my texts there have been scores of requests! It seems like everybody got on this bandwagon, so you’re getting requests. They can be kind of overwhelming.

Randy, you’ve written an article which we’re linking to on our transcript at ReviveOurHearts.com today. It’s called Nineteen Questions to Ask Before You Give to Any Organization. 

Randy: Yes.

Nancy: Addressing this question, how do we know where to give, when there are so many good opportunities beyond your local church? Your local church is where you start, that should go without saying, start there. You need to invest your life and your time and your resources there. 

But beyond that, there are ministries like Eternal Perspective Ministries that you lead, and Revive Our Hearts, which those listening are listening to now. And many, many other good ones! So just give us, in a nutshell, maybe a couple things to keep in mind as people are getting a lot of requests. How do they think about, “How do I know where to give?” Then we’ll send people to look at this article to get some other really great wisdom on that question. 

Randy: One thing I would say is, look at the track record of this organization, and don’t just go to their website to do that. If you can possibly visit the office and talk to some of the people who work there, you can learn so much about an organization just with casual conversations, “What’s it like working here? What do you love about this organization?”

If you feel you can do it, ask, “Are there some things you wish were done differently here? I’m speaking as a potential donor, but it’s just something that I would like to know.” Go to other third party sources to hear what people have to say about this organization.

Ministry Watch is an organization that evaluates the different ministries. Sometimes you can learn from them about how much is spent on overhead, which, of course, is legitimate to an extent, but sometimes it’s way, way too much. See if you can figure out if money is really being well spent.

And find out if it’s truly gospel centered, that’s it’s really about Jesus and the good news. Even if they are working with getting clean water to people and getting health care to people or helping people with their crops, whatever it is, make sure that the gospel is there, that Jesus is credited with the reason, the love of Jesus, that’s propelling them to do what they do.

I would ask, “What’s unique about this ministry? Where are they in their relationship with God?” Certainly look at their doctrinal statement. Which raises an interesting question. We’ve had to evaluate our ministry, EPM, because we give away all the royalties from my books. Then there’s more we give away as well. (The excess that comes to our ministry, we don’t want to keep it. We pass it on to other people.) So we’re giving to all these organizations. 

We’ve found in recent years that a lot of them no longer have doctrinal statements. Some of them are just posting The Apostles’ Creed. I’m all for The Apostles’ Creed, but it doesn’t address the deity of Christ, the inspiration and authority of Scriptures, and lots of other important things.

I like the old-fashioned, you know, “Show us a doctrinal statement and say what you believe.” I know you’ve got a doctrinal statement, Nancy, with your ministry. We do with ours. I just think being able to ask basic questions and get some clear answers is essential if you are going to be donating to an organization. 

Listen to objective people who can see both the pros and cons of this group. Let that help influence your decision whether to give to them and how much to give to them.

Nancy: There are so many trends today that lead ministries away from the sound doctrine, the pure word of the gospel, the truth. We want to be careful about that, so we want to give generously and not to say, “We’re in charge,” of that ministry. We want to give with open hands and hearts, but yet we want to be responsible stewards.

One of the things you talk about in this article is doing what you can to learn about the heart and the lives of the people who lead this ministry. Are they people of integrity? Do they have a heart for serving? Or are they just managers or directors or leaders? Do they have a passion for Christ and for the mission and the message?

So, that’s just a taste of what you can get from this article. I printed off this article from my laptop yesterday; it’s, I don’t know, maybe twelve or fifteen pages. I was so glad to come across it! We’re posting it on ReviveOurHearts.com, on the transcript for today’s program, so that you can take time to read it. Print it out, underline.

I’ve underlined and highlighted things in mine as Robert and I are talking and praying about our year-end giving—not just on Giving Tuesday—but between now and the end of the year. There will be lots of needs, lots of requests, lots of asks.

We want to give! But we want to give wisely; we want to give thoughtfully; we want to give prayerfully. This is an article, “Nineteen Questions to Ask Before You Give to Any Organization,” that you will find helpful.

Let me just remind you that we’re offering this week, Randy’s book The Treasure Principle. It is a treasure; this book is a treasure! I love, love, love this book! I can’t tell you how much I love this book, and I’m not just saying it because Randy’s her. Other people have heard me say it.

It’s just so rich with the heart of Christ and helping us grasp something of the secret of joyful giving. So when you make a donation of any amount to Revive Our Hearts today . . . and we have a Giving Tuesday project. We’re asking the Lord to provide about $150,000 dollars through His people, as He prompts. We’re not pushing you; we’re asking the Lord to just prompt. He may prompt you to give somewhere else. You give where the Holy Spirit prompts you. 

But if He prompts you to give toward that project at Revive Our Hearts today—whatever the amount of the gift is—we’ll be glad to send you a copy of this little book The Treasure Principle by Randy Alcorn,as our way of saying thank you for your support.

Dannah: And any donations we receive today will go directly to our various international outreaches, including more Revive Our Hearts programs in languages such as Portuguese, Farsi, German, and French.

The way you can make your donation is by going to ReviveOurHearts.com, click your tab where you see the word “donate.” If you’re on your computer, it’s at the top of the page. If you’re using your phone, you can click on the three lines and find “donate” in the menu there.

When you give, you’ll be able to indicate you’d like to receive Randy’s book The Treasure Principle. And don’t forget, you’ll find a link to the article “Nineteen Questions to Ask Before You Give to Any Organization.”It’s within the transcript of this program.

You’ll also find information about the doctrinal statement of Revive Our Hearts. Of course, if you’d like to call us to give, that’s an option, too. Our number is 1-800-569-5959. Would you help us meet our Giving Tuesday goal? And don’t forget, ask about The Treasure Principle when you call. 

Nancy: You want to be sure and join us tomorrow as we continue this conversation with Randy about the joy of giving God’s way and how this can become a means of preparation for all of eternity. Don’t miss tomorrow’s Revive Our Hearts!

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth is calling you to give radically and wisely, and to find freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ.

*Offers available only during the broadcast of the podcast season.