The Beauty of Holy Sexuality

Dannah Gresh: According to Dr. Christopher Yuan, it’s not enough to just confront sin when we see it.

Dr. Christopher Yuan: If we’re calling people out of sexual brokenness, we need to call people away from something and to something. We need to turn from sin and we need to point people to the correct thing.

Dannah: You’re listening to the Revive Our Hearts podcast for June 7, 2024. I’m Dannah Gresh. Our host is Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, author of Holiness: the Heart God Purifies.

Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth: To some people the phrase “holy sexuality” might sound like an oxymoron—like they think that something holy couldn’t possibly have anything to do with sex or sexuality.

But as the late Dr. Howard Hendricks said, “We shouldn’t be ashamed to discuss that which God was not ashamed to create.” God made you male or female. His design is good! But Satan loves to take good things that God created and twist them and make us doubt that God knew what He was doing.

We certainly see that all around us in the confusion and the plain old wrong thinking surrounding gender and sexuality. Our guest this week has been Dr. Christopher Yuan. He and his mother Angela shared in our online event on Tuesday evening. 

It was called When You Love a Prodigal. By the way, you can still sign up and register to watch the whole thing at ReviveOurHearts.com/help. In addition to the Yuans, we heard from Mary Kassian and Dr. Joannie DeBrito. Their messages were practical and full of hope! 

Christopher Yuan understands how easy it is to conflate your sense of identity with twisted sexual desires. He knows firsthand what the first chapter of Romans talks about: exchanging the truth about God for a lie and being given over to wrong passons and wrong desires.

But God worked a miraculous transformation in Christopher’s life, and now he’s actively helping others understand the truth about gender, sexuality, and the gospel. So today, let’s listen to the third part of a conversation Dannah Gresh had with Dr. Christopher Yuan.

Dannah: Dr. Christopher Yuan and his parents have developed The Holy Sexuality Project. It’s a curriculum to keep parents in the driver’s seat of their children’s sexual education. He’s back with us today to explain how you can be in the driver’s seat. Welcome back, Christopher.

Christopher: Oh, thanks so much for having me on again, Dannah.

Dannah: We’ve had such good conversations, and I’m so excited about The Holy Sexuality Project. I’ve been telling everybody about it. Tell us what it is.

Christopher: It’s a video series that’s one of its kind. There are some other resources out there that I think are helpful, but they’re mainly geared to show to youth groups. Again, not a bad thing, but the problem with that is that it leaves the parents out of the picture.

We are being so bombarded, our kids are being just inundated, starting in pre-K. It’s not enough to wait until youth group, until high school, to talk about biblical sexuality.It’s not enough to have another program once a year that addresses biblical sexuality.

What is the key? Home discipleship. What is the key? For parents to have biblical gospel-centered conversations at home. Not so much in the classroom or in the youth group room, but in the living room, in the family room, in the dining room on a weekly, maybe even a daily, basis. Why?

And I know maybe you’re a parent listening right now thinking, Oh my goodness! I don’t know if I can have these conversations! Well, listen to this: how often are our kids getting the wrong message on sexuality? On a yearly basis, like once a year? How about twice a year? Monthly? Weekly? Probably on a daily—if not multi-daily—basis, like multiple times throughout the day! So we have to recognize that fact and then ask, “What am I doing to give them the correct understanding?” 

Again, if they’re beginning in pre-K—the world is beginning there—we need to start early! We had this conversation yesterday about Deuteronomy 6, the greatest commandment. That’s such a wonderful verse, the greatest commandment: ”Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength” (v. 5).

But what is the context of this? Moses wrote this, the Word of God, saying that we need to teach this diligently to our children. Teach this diligently. Are we doing this diligently? Are we discipling our kids diligently? And, specifically, are we diligently teaching our children biblical sexuality?

Because if we’re not, I know who’s definitely willing to do that and is doing that diligently . . . and that’s the world, that’s their peers, that’s media. Not only this, it says, “. . . you and your son and your son’s son” (v. 2). So what does this mean?

Not only parents but, get ready for this listeners, grandparents. Grandparents! Why is that Dannah? For one, it’s “all hands on deck,” right now. You might be that mom, and you might be thinking, Oh, my goodness, I’m freaking out! I’m just so scared!

We need that help, we need support, we need cheerleaders, we need multi-faceted grandparents. You can think back when you were a teenager, you or your peers might not have listened so much to your parents. So maybe right now, Grandpa, you have more of a listening ear to the grandchildren than their parents do. So it needs to be parents, grandparents. It needs to be all hands on deck.

Dannah: Well, what you’re saying is very countercultural, because we’re witnessing in our culture a rise of an ideology or a mindset that believes that teachers and agents of the State are better at teaching your children about these things than you are, that they can help your children make better decisions about their sexuality and their gender than you can.

It didn’t used to be that way. There was a Supreme Court decision in 1979 that was actually the opposite of that—that the parental authority superseded every other authority in the land. And yet, we are not seeing that right now. 

What you’re providing is a way for parents to step into that position of parental authority that’s given to us in Deuteronomy 6, and be the ones to educate them on a really critical subject that’s close to the gospel: holy sexuality.

When I hear that title, I want to ask you, where did you get that term? Why did you title it The Holy Sexuality Project?

Christopher: Yes, and if I can even add on what you just said, I’m so glad that finally it’s coming out that the world and public schools and public school boards, they are doing all they can to replace the parent!

But here’s the issue: as much as Christians are saying, “We reject that!” but what about in practice? How many times do parents think, I’m dropping off my kid at youth group, and my youth pastor is going to do my job. The youth pastor is going to disciple my kids. The youth pastor is going to talk to my kids about sexuality.”

Now, should the youth pastor do that? Absolutely! That’s not my point. My point is, the youth pastor does not replace the parent. The youth pastor should not be the primary discipler, should not be the primary person talking about biblical sexuality. Who is that? Deuteronomy 6: parents and grandparents.

So holy sexuality, where did I come up with that? I know the term might sound new, but actually the concepts are not. I should not be making up anything new. The word “trinity” is not found in the Bible anywhere; the phrase holy sexuality is not found in the Bible anywhere, but the concepts definitely are. 

So holy sexuality birthed out of my book Holy Sexuality and the Gospel and in this video series. Essentially, I took the concepts of my book (it was named 2020 Book of the Year for social issues by
Outreach magazine) and adapted that to make it accessible for preteens, teenagers and their parents and their grandparents.

That book was more for adults, not because the concepts were somehow descriptive or that mature, but it was deeper. I wrote that with a higher expectation of theological knowledge and an ability to understand abstract thoughts.

So I wanted to take all of those concepts from the book, and I added a few extra things, like transgenderism, and I wanted to make it very concessible. I wanted to use a medium that kids are just voraciously consuming. I wish kids were reading more, but that’s maybe a whole other topic. But kids just love video, so I did that.

So the concept came from the book Holy Sexuality, which came out of my frustration of the framework that I think Christians have pigeon-holed ourselves in. What is that framework? It’s the framework of heterosexuality, bisexuality, and homosexuality.

I thought, “Okay, if homosexuality is not God’s will”—which it’s not—then heterosexuality must be God’s will. But then I went to God’s Word and I saw the Bible condemning a lot of heterosexual sin. So I thought, Heterosexuality is not precise enough. I mean, we’re living in a world of infinite “shades of gray,” not just “fifty.” Ambiguity is almost like a virtue: “the less clear you are, the better.” God is not unclear. He is very precise.

So that’s how this concept of holy sexuality came out. I thought, Heterosexuality, it’s not fully wrong; it’s just not fully right because it’s so broad that it includes sinful behavior. So I thought, What’s very, very precise? God is precise. He’s accurate. So I began reading God’s Word from Genesis to Revelation. 

The whole Bible only lifts up two paths when it comes to sexuality. We are called when you are single, you are going to be sexually abstinent. If you marry (and I’m using the only biblical definition of marriage, which is a man and a woman), be faithful to your spouse of the opposite sex.

So, holy sexuality is simply chastity in singleness or faithfulness in marriage—two paths. And I recognized there was not one term for both of those, so I created a term, and I called it “holy sexuality.” The term might be new, the concepts just come right out of the pages of Scripture.

 

I realized if we’re calling people out of sexual brokenness, we need to call people away from something and to something. Actually, “repentance” in the Hebrew means “turn”—shuv. We need to turn from something, and we need to turn to something.

We need to turn from sin, and we need to point people to the correct thing. It isn’t different for different types of people; it’s the same for all humanity. We are all called to holiness, and holiness applied to sexuality is either chastity in singleness or faithfulness in marriage.

Dannah: So good, and it’s a beautiful series.The series has animation; it has you teaching. It’s really beautifully done! I’m so proud of you and the work that you’ve put into this and your mom and your dad.

In the first lesson you say something that you mentioned yesterday: the ultimate goal, when it comes to sexuality, is to glorify God by denying yourself, taking up your cross, and following Jesus. I love this because, in general, it has been said that the goal when it comes to sexuality is abstinence or chastity or restraint.

You’re taking it into something much more meaningful here. Elaborate on that just a little bit, and I want you to specifically tell me, how would you talk to a fifteen-year-old about that?

Christopher: The importance of God’s truth is that when we simply say the “no,” well, we can’t build a Christian life just on God’s “no.” God’s truth has a “yes” to it. We need to teach not only God’s “no” but God’s “yes.”

So when we see it in that way—chastity in singleness, faithfulness in marriage—that is God’s “yes” and “no.” Also, what’s the ultimate goal when it comes to sexuality? It’s to glorify God by denying yourself, taking up your cross and following Jesus. We have right there, then, the “yes” and the “no.”

If we simply just tell them, “don’t do this, don’t do that, don’t do this, don’t do that . . .” Dannah, those are important things to teach our children, right? “Don’t touch the burning stove!” Those are good things to teach our kids. But we also need to teach the “yes,” the beauty of sexuality.

So that was my goal. In the past it was a little bit of a limited picture that did not have the broad beauty of God’s complete truth when it comes to sexuality. This is not just about behavior management or just grinning and bearing it. It’s about giving God our all in all, because He is our all and all!

Dannah: Amen. You know, gender confusion is really running rampant, devouring these kids today. With my True Girl ministry, which is for eight-to-twelve year-old girls and their moms, I do online Bible studies.

I did one not too long ago called It’s Great to Be a Girl. In advertising it I promised the moms, “We will not talk about the counterfeits. I’m just going to build a biblical foundation for your daughter to be pleased, proud, grateful that she’s female . . . that God chose this for her.”

And the first night in the Q and A, I could not believe the language that these eight-to-twelve-year-old girls had! The vocabulary of the letters: the LGBTQIA, the transgenderism, all this stuff. They knew it. They had questions about it. Do you deal with that topic in The Holy Sexuality Project?

Christopher: Yes, I certainly do. When my book came out four or five years ago—or more than that—the transgenderism was an issue, but it had just exploded, probably during 2020 COVID. Just a lot of things kind of blew up and exploded.

So what we are just drowning in right now is this gender ideology that confuses our self-perception with our essence. So I definitely knew I needed to add that. There’s an entire lesson dealing with gender and helping us to think through what is true and what is part of the Fall. When we recognize that, that’s very helpful to think clearly, in categories.

I said that the other day in my interview with you, that I love to think in categories, because I think that brings clarity to our discussion on sexuality and gender. I address that, and I talk about how sex—male and female—iis an objective, binary classification. “Objective,” meaning it’s not based on my feelings, thus it’s not subjective. It’s “binary,” meaning there are two clear categories: male or female. 

Now a lot of times people will push back and say, “Well, what about intersex?” Here’s the lie about intersex. The majority of those who are on this what they call, the “intersex spectrum,” the majority of those individuals we know that they are either a male or a female.

Now, their physical or their biological or their sex organs might be ambiguous and unclear, but if you do a further study—whether it’s a DNA test or they might have an extra chromosome, etc.—doctors know that this a male or a female.

It’s in very, very, very rare cases because intersex is a very rare condition. But it is even fewer within that who have intersex where we don’t really know. But even in that situation, in every situation when it comes to medicine and science, anomalies never nullify categories.We don’t want to ever do that. So that’s important.

Dannah: Intersexuality is a biological condition, and what we’re seeing predominantly right now is not biological gender confusion, but psychological gender confusion.

Christopher: Yes, that’s right, so intersex is a biological reality, and it’s an objective reality. Where gender is psychological—how we understand ourselves, our self-perception—and it’s subjective. So gender has been redefined, and it no longer is equivalent to sex.

We obviously don’t agree with this new concept, but it’s still the reality of this redefinition. It is a reality of the Fall. Sometimes I think it is helpful to name things that are a reality of the Fall. The same thing with same-sex attractions. It’s a reality of the Fall, grounded in our sin nature.

We don’t think it’s good; it’s not something we should celebrate. But people do struggle with it. When it comes to what the world calls “gender dysphoria,” that is a reality of the Fall. We don’t act on it. We don’t celebrate it. We don’t make it our identity, and yet we also need to realize there are adults who do truly struggle with this reality of the sin nature.

We have to have compassion, walk alongside them, encourage them, “Do not put your identity in this. Do not act on it.” Just as none of us should act on our sinful temptations or things rooted in our sin nature.

However, I also want to add, what I’m seeing more and more, and especially, Dannah, with all the ministry you have with young girls . . . We are seeing, and I know you are too, more and more young girls, preteen, prepubescent girls, teenage girls that are now identifying as transgender, nonbinary, queer, pansexual, the list goes on, when they actually don’t really experience gender dysphoria or sexual identity issues. It’s all part of just wanting to belong to a new peer group. 

They don’t wrestle themselves. It’s not actually true gender dysphoria rooted in the Fall. It’s still rooted in the Fall, because they’re trying to identify in something that’s not rooted in our Maker, not rooted in the fact that we’re created in God’s image, and as Christ-bearers we must put our identity in Christ. So I see it as a pandemic going on right now that really is “erasing” girls!

Dannah: Oh, absolutely! “Erasing girls,” that’s right! There’s a growing number of secular researchers . . . Intellectually honest secular researchers are very concerned, because until about 2011, transgenderism was predominantly a male problem. And now suddenly, it is predominantly a female problem.

It’s not just like, “Oh, girls are struggling, too, now.” It’s mostly girls struggling! You have to look at what has happened in the culture, and you can see these “clusters of contagion,” they call them, where girls are experiencing so much pressure that they’re starting to question.

But they didn’t have some of the gender dysphoria symptoms as children that they would have had if it was true gender dysphoria. So I just want to affirm that, I had to get on my soapbox there, because my girls . . . This is why we have to bring sex education back to the living room, as you said.

Christopher: Yes, yes. And if I could even add, if you’re that parent and you have . . . If I could just tell a quick story. I had a mother who was so distraught, it was a child. It was not even a teenager; it was grade school.

The child went to the public school counselor—which I do not suggest. This student confided to this public school secular counselor, “I struggle with depression.” 

The counselor’s response was, “Are you transgender?”

The daughter said, “No, no I’m not!”

So they went through their session. Next session, “Are you transgender?” 

“No, I don’t, no, I’m not transgender.” 

They kept doing that until finally the young daughter said, “Yes, I am.” We know that there is an enormous push right now.

And, parents, if you ever hear anyone that says a statement like this, “Would you rather a dead daughter or a live son?” Tell them this, “The only people that would say something like that are people who are terrorists, and they are wanting to kidnap children.” Those are the only people who would say something like that. It’s a threat.

All the research, when you actually do research—not anecdotal data, because people will want to throw out anecdotal data and say, “Kids are going to kill themselves.” When you actually look at the real research that’s peer-reviewed, that’s longitudinal, that is objective not anecdotal, not subjective, meaning, “Tell me what you feel . . .” That’s not research; that’s just storytelling.

When you actually look at all the research and specifically do research in the Netherlands—the most so-called gay-affirming and transgender-affirming country in the entire world—you will see the fact right now that for LGBTQ children and youth, their suicide ideation is higher than their counterparts.

So it’s a lie that they will actually commit suicide if they’re not affirmed. There is so much affirmation going on in the Netherlands, and yet suicide rates are high. So the reality is, blood is on whose hands? Not ours. 

We need to recognize that we want to deal with the reality of not only sin, but also this contagion of suicide and suicide ideation. But to be barking up the wrong tree could actually be making things worse. We need to recognize that we actually want to deal with mental health issues and not sweep that under the rug.

Dannah: That’s right, amen! Well, there are so many things at stake: the mental health of our kids, the sexuality of our children. But I don’t think anything is more at stake than the gospel of Jesus. I want to read Ephesians 5:31 and 32. It always comes back to these two verses for me when it comes to the topic of sexuality.

“‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’.” And that’s in quotes, so that’s quoting Genesis 2:24. And then Paul writes, “This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.”

When the world looks at us and they see marriage between one man and one woman—and it is holy and it is pure—somehow, the Bible says, this mystery of love is a picture of the love that Jesus has for the Church, for us. It’s so important that we pass that on to our children!

Dr. Yuan, I’m so thankful for The Holy Sexuality Project and what you’re doing to bring sexual education back into the control of the moms and the dads—whom God gave authority to—and into the living rooms of our Christian homes. God bless you for that!

Christopher: Yes, thank you so much, Dannah. The pinnacle of this whole video series is in Lesson 7. I bring up my father, who is now with the Lord. He was my biggest cheerleader, and more than anything else, he wanted this video series out. 

Why? Because my dad loved kids! He had this enormous burden for this younger generation, that we’re just drowning. He wanted this video series to be out three years ago, that’s how much! He actually funded this whole video series.

We got proposals. It was like 1.1 million, 1.2, 1.3 million dollars! Fortunately, we didn’ have to pay all that. But my dad gave all. He was so in! And then my dad went home to be with the Lord.

And why I think Lesson 7 is so important in this video series is because that’s the lesson that I talk about marriage. I talk about the importance of marriage, that it’s a man and a woman. But as you said there in Ephesians 5, Paul talked about the mystery. 

It’s the Greek word mysterion. It’s this mystery that actually all marriages are just shadows. That’s what John Piper calls it in the book Momentary Marriage. These are just shadows of what? The actual, real, ultimate reality. All marriages are just penultimate. The ultimate reality of marriage is Christ and the Church. When we leave Christ out of the picture, then we’re not really saying anything.

So I wanted kids, as I’m talking about the goodness of singleness, that even if you find yourself single . . . I’m not talking about lifelong singleness, because I think that’s not necessarily something that we need to that’s who I am. I mean, even Nancy was just living as a single woman for years, and God just so miraculously brought her and Robert together. I had the blessing of being at their wedding. What a huge, enormous gift and surprise and blessing that was for everyone.

For myself, I’m a single man. I’m not saying I’m going to be doing this for life, because who am I? I’m not God. I just know as a single man, God in His sovereignty has me where I am. But I am open to whatever God has for me.

I am open if it is His will to get married to a woman, but if that’s His will. But I wanted to communicate to our teens who are single right now, the goodness of that, but also to point them to the reality of marriage. That it’s not the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is Christ and the Church which, then, points to what? The gospel! 

In Lesson 7, why I call that the pinnacle, is because I give this great opportunity at the very end to share the good news of Jesus! I talk about how marriage is just temporary. Jesus says in Matthew 22 that there’s not going to be any marriage in heaven.

So we’re all going to be single in eternity—I hate to break the news to everyone! But the good news is we’re going to be corporately wed to the Lamb of God! Then I bring in the reality and the story of my mom and my dad.

They were married for fifty-six years; they knew each other for fifty-eight years. They did everything together. They worked together. My mom was his manager in his dental office. Then after he retired (which means he just changed tires and kept going for the Lord), we did everything together.

We traveled together for our ministry. He traveled forty to fifty times a year with me. My mom traveled sixty to seventy times a year with me. He did everything! And then God brought him home. And what did that mean for my mom? She was no longer married. She is now a widow, living her life as unmarried, as a single woman.

But I wanted to point people—and the kids and the teens—to what is most important: Christ! “Now go and follow Jesus!” What does that mean? My dad is now with the Lord, and it was very, very sudden, July 3 of 2021. It took us by surprise. He fell, hit his head, and they couldn’t stop the internal bleeding. His brain function was basically gone, his heart was failing.

But here’s what was so important, even though it took us by surprise. My mom and I were about to leave. My mom said something I will never forget. “He had said, ‘We’re going to tell everyone that Dr. Leon Yuan is not dead. He is now more alive than he ever was before!’”

I challenge parents to have these conversations. I challenge the youth, “Do you know Jesus?” To be honest, Dannah, these past three days have been great. We’ve been talking about sexuality, but none of that really matters more than this: Do you know Jesus? Is He your all in all? Because if He isn't, nothing matters! We can try to do things right, we could try to do this or do that. But ultimately, our goal is to follow Jesus!

Nancy: Dannah Gresh and Christopher Yuan have been sharing ways that parents can help their teens understand and live out holy sexuality. In fact, that’s the title of the video series Christopher has produced for parents and teens: The Holy Sexuality Project.

It has twelve lessons covering a variety of topics, like: false identity, true identity, singleness, marriage, and, of course, holy sexuality. I think this is a hugely important project and one I want to encourage parents to go through with their teens. We’ve got to be putting the right kind of thinking from God’s Word into their lives.

You’ll find the link to The Holy Sexuality Project in the transcript of this program, at ReviveOurHearts.com or on the Revive Our Hearts app. If you’re the parent of someone who has already wandered away from God’s path, there’s still something you can do. You can pray!

And to help you with that, I want to encourage you to sign up for the prayer challenge our team has developed called While You Wait for Your Prodigal. For the rest of June we’ll send you an email to your inbox every day with a Bible passage, a devotional, and a prayer to give you some tracks to run on in your own prayers. To sign up to receive those emails this month, go to ReviveOurHearts.com, or call us at 1-800-569-5959. Or get the book with your donation of any amount.

Speaking of prayer for your prodigal, I hope you’ll listen on Monday. Fern Nichols and Marlae Gritter will be here to give you some pointers on praying for your prodigal son or daughter.

Well, I hope you have a wonderful weekend. I trust you’ll worship with your local church body; that’s such an important part of your walk with God. You need them . . . and don’t forget, they need you too. Then next week, be sure and be back for Revive Our Hearts.

This program is a listener-supported production of Revive Our Hearts in Niles, Michigan, calling women to freedom, fullness and fruitfulness in Christ!

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