The Epicenter of Hope, with Daniel Darling

Dannah Gresh: The women going to the tomb that Sunday morning had no idea what was in store for them. Author Daniel Darling encourages women in every era.

Daniel Darling: There’s something powerful about the witness and the courage and the faithfulness of a Christian woman. God uses Christian women to declare His good news around the world.

Dannah: This is Revive Our Hearts for Monday, April 10, 2023. I’m Dannah Gresh. Our host is the author of Heaven Rules, Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth.

Nancy: I trust your Resurrection Sunday celebration yesterday was joyful and worshipful. He is risen! He is risen indeed! I love reflecting on the fact that Jesus didn’t stay dead. He’s alive! That changes everything! That truth is the very epicenter of our hope, isn’t it? 

In 1 Corinthians chapter 15, the apostle Paul walks us through a little mental exercise of what it would be like if the resurrection had not happened. He says,

If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied. But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. (vv. 17–20)

We, too, will be raised in Christ because He has risen from the dead. Amen!

Today we’re going to revisit a Grounded podcast from a couple of years ago. Now, if you’re unfamiliar with Grounded, that’s a weekly videocast and podcast that is hosted by Erin Davis, Dannah Gresh, and Portia Collins. Today you’ll hear from both Erin and Dannah, along with their guest that day, Daniel Darling. 

You’ll remember that in the Spring of 2021, we were still in the midst of the pandemic. You'll hear them refer to that. Let’s listen together. 

Erin: Well, I’ve been parked in this book, The Characters of Easter by our guest today, Daniel Darling, so welcome to Grounded. As he's coming on I want to read to all of us just a little gold nugget—there's lots of them in here. It's a little bit like an archeological dig to read this book. A little gold nugget from the book that has been sticking with me says this, 

Easter is the sign that a new world is coming. One day God will take rotted dust particles [which reminds me again of our good news] ravaged by disease and decay and will reconstruct them into real physical bodies fit for eternity. This cycle of pain and sadness, viruses and death, has an expiration date.

Man, am I looking forward to this conversation! Welcome to Grounded, Daniel.

Daniel: Hey it's great to be with you all. I love the work that you're doing here with Grounded. I just love talking about the hope of Easter. 

Erin: Thank you.Is there anything better to talk about today? Hey, you were writing this book last year during the weirdest Easter ever. I remember watching Easter livestreamed in my pajamas at my house. I want to know . . take us back there, even though I know we're all kind of wanting to move past those memories in some ways. But take us back there. What did God stir in your heart as you're deep diving into the Easter story against that harsh backdrop of so much death in the midst of the pandemic?

Daniel: Easter's always always a big deal because for Christians this is everything. As Paul said, “If Christ didn't walk out of that grave, then religious people of all people should be pitied.”

Erin: Right

Daniel: We might be doing all this religious stuff, but if he did, it changes everything. I think this last year, it's meant even more. It's been more relevant because we're more aware of our mortality; we're more aware of death; we're more aware of just the divisions in this country, the brokenness in the world. And I think everybody's longing for things to be made, right.

We're waiting for a vaccine or waiting for the pandemic to be over waiting for . . . We're hoping for political solutions. And you know, the Easter story says that if this is true, if Jesus did rise again from the grave, and we believe He did, then there's a new world coming. 

Actually, I love Easter, even just the fact that Easter happens in the spring. It's so bright,and sort of pastel. It's kind of this idea that after a long, hard winter, something new is coming. There's a new creation coming. 

Erin: Yeah, the daffodils are coming up where I live in Missouri, and they're telling the Easter story, aren't they? They're just pushing up through the darkness to show us glory. Well, the resurrection was real. 

I took my kids to an Easter egg hunt this weekend. I don't know where they got their eggs produced, but they all said “He did rise” or something. It was past tense. My husband handed me one. He said, isn't it "He is"? It said, "He was risen." That's what they all said. And my husband was like, shouldn’t it be "is"? And I'm like, "Yes!" It was a real event. It really happened. But it really has implications for our lives now. Real people saw it. That's part of the reason why we can look at it with confidence. 

I want to focus on five of those people, the women named as the witnesses of the tomb. I didn't pay attention to it until I read your book. But the Bible actually says "many women" witnessed Christ at the resurrection, but five of them were named. Who are those five women named in Scripture as the witnesses of the resurrection? 

Daniel: Well, there's five of them. There's Mary Magdalene, there's Mary the mother of Jesus, there's another Mary (that could also be Cleopas that some people believe might have been Mary's sister-in-law, perhaps).

Erin: Mary must have been a popular name. 

Daniel: Yes, there's a woman named Joanna who was in Herod’s court. And then there’s Salome, who most scholars believe was James and John's mother, Zebedee’s wife. So these five women were named. But as you said, there were more women who were there, possibly at the tomb and at the foot of the cross.

Erin: Yeah, it's my experience that women run toward grief together. We bring the casseroles, we comfort, and so, I'm not surprised that a group of women came together to the tomb. There's two of them that I'm most fascinated by if I'm being honest. One of them is Mary Magdalene. And there's this tender moment with Jesus outside the tomb. And again, I didn't think about it until I've been reading your book, but hers were the first human vocal cords to say, “He is risen.” And then she went and told the disciples.

So why should Mary Magdalene’s story, specifically, encourage us and give us hope this Easter season? 

Daniel: One of the reasons I wrote this book . . . I like to write about the characters in the Bible because I don't believe there are any coincidences in who God casts in this Greatest Story, ever. If you think about it, the first witness to the empty tomb, the first witness that Christ had defeated sin and death in the grave and that a new world that's coming . . . The first evangelist was not Pilate, who was the Roman governor. It was not Herod; it was not the disciples; it was not the religious leaders. 

It was Mary Magdalene, who was a previously tormented woman who had seven demons, who is probably an outcast in our community, who struggled probably with mental illness with all that demon possession. She is someone whom Christ had radically changed. She is the first one to tell the world that He has risen. 

What a powerful witness. I think there's a couple of reasons why I think it's significant that women were the first witnesses and the first evangelists. I think, first of all, it follows with the line of Scripture that through a woman sin entered into the world, but also through a woman, the promise entered into the world through Jesus. Mary accepted the assignment to carry Jesus. And then through a woman would be announced the good news of the resurrection.

But secondly, the testimony of women in the first century was not well regarded. It wasn't admissible in a court of law. A lot of scholars have talked about this. And so, it's another proof of the resurrection story, because if this was just the disciples trying to make something up, they would not have put forward women as witnesses. In fact, Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, in his apologetic for the resurrection, he doesn't use their testimony because he knows his audience won't receive that. 

But I think it says something about the kingdom of God that Christianity always elevates the status of women; true Christianity elevates the status of women. Women in the first century were not well regarded. It was unusual that Jesus had female disciples. Rabbis typically did not have female disciples. It would be considered radical, progressive, unusual. And so it all tells us something about who Jesus is, even by the women who were witnesses.

 

Erin: Yeah, I love that in the book you call it an apologetic for the resurrection. It really is, and choosing Mary Magdalene really is. I mean, she had been what we would probably call crazy, and yet she is this witness that gets to tell the story. I’m also really drawn to Salome. I love Salome because Scripture tells us that she had sons of thunder which you mentioned. I’m a mom of four boys, and they are sons of thunder. So I’m very drawn to her story. She's the woman, she is that mama bear if you know from Scripture. She's that mama bear who asked Jesus, “Hey, can my sons sit at your right and left hand.” She's also a mother who endured heartbreak.

So what happened to her that we see this transformation, and what really encourages you from her specifically?

Daniel: One of the things that's encouraging is when you look at the call of John on his life. Jesus says, “Follow me and I’ll make you fishers of men.” He left his nets. We think, Oh that's no big deal; I don't like fishing anyway. 

Erin: Right.

Daniel: Well, that was John's whole way of life. It was his livelihood; it was his father's business; it was a family business. And so, when John accepted the call to leave everything follow Jesus, it was a family call.

Zebedee and Salome could have made a fuss and not let their sons go, especially in those days when families were so tight knit. It was a family call. You see them around Jesus. So they knew that their sons were called into this and they followed them with it, which is such a great witness for parents that God may call our children places, and we should support that. 

And then as you said, she is kind of a mama bear. She's fighting for her sons. John is a son of thunder. Now, that was not a term of endearment that Jesus gave him. He was hot headed and impulsive. If we remember, he was a young man when he followed Jesus. He wanted to call down fire on the Samaritans; he wanted to get rid of people who were preaching the gospel but not part of their official tribe.

And then he and James are elbowing their way to be there thinking Jesus is ushering a political kingdom. "I’ll be Secretary of State; you'll be Secretary of Defense." I think they enlisted Salome to ask Him. You can even hear that conversation, “Hey Mom, He really likes you. Can you kind of ask?”

Erin: "He won’t tell you no, Mama," right?

Daniel: Right. What's interesting about it is that John actually did get to be on Jesus’ right hand in that upper room, but it's a different kind of power, a kingdom where Jesus is washing feet where the last shall be first. And you see at the end of John's life when he's writing the epistles to the church, he's not a son of thunder anymore. He's an apostle of love.

He's talking about the true measure of greatness. That's sort of the journey he went on. But his mother was there for this whole part, and she's there at the foot of the cross.

Erin: Yeah.

Daniel: Her son had followed Jesus into this radical way of life, and she is there every step of the way. Everyone else left Jesus; everyone else abandoned. Salome and these women stayed there. I think it shows us the power of a woman's faith, that when a woman follows Jesus, it is powerful. I think it has world-changing implications.

Erin: And the power of a mama . . . I mean, I got to think that Salome softens too.

Daniel: Yes.

Erin: Because she's at the tomb to minister to Jesus to minister to these other grieving women. A soft mom that has implications in her family, so that's part of why I’m drawn to her. You say in the book the empty tomb is Eden come full circle. What does that mean?

Daniel: Well, it's Eden come full circle in a couple of ways. I mean number one, when it comes to the status of women, if you go back to Eden where Eve is deceived by the serpent and sin and death come into the world. And then you walk through Mary accepting the call to be the mother of Jesus, and then to the empty tomb where the curse has been reversed and God has through Jesus defeated sin and death and the grave and defeated Satan, it's a woman again announcing the good news. This is the story of Jesus; it’s God's plan of redemption from time immemorial. It's come full circle.

And this is why Easter is so important for us. This is why it matters so much, because this is true. We don't have to despair that God has a plan to renew and restore human hearts but also to renew and restore the world.

Erin: Yeah, I love that. We also know there's a woman watching this right now or she's gonna listen to it later, and she just feels hopeless. She feels as hollow as that tomb. She's going to feel like it's a fairy tale. Not because she doesn't believe it happened but because it just doesn't seem to be touching the parts of her life that feel dark and dead and buried. 

So, for that woman, Daniel, as you've been deep into Scripture, I wonder what you would say to her about how she could reignite her resurrection hope even now? And then if you would you just pray for anybody listening that's feeling hopeless this Holy Week.

Daniel: I would love to. What I want to say is that to women, especially to moms especially who are tired and weary or just all the stuff around us and just in the thick of motherhood . . . Your labor is not in vain in the Lord. God is using you even in those moments where it seems like what you're doing is not that significant.

These women were coming to treat the body of Jesus. They didn't think this was that significant of a thing. It was just something they were going to do for their friend to give Him an honest and decent, honorable burial. They didn't know that in that moment they would experience some life-changing thing, that this was history being made.

And so, I just want to tell moms that just stay faithful and to stay connected to God. God sees you. He sees your effort .He loves you. There's something powerful about the witness and the courage and the faithfulness of a Christian woman. God uses Christian women to declare His good news around the world, and so I just want to encourage you this Easter.

Erin: Amen.

Daniel: Shall we pray? 

Erin: Let's pray.

Daniel: Dear Lord, we're so thankful and grateful for the good news of Easter. Lord, that You have not left us in our despair. You have not left us in our sin. You have not left a broken world beset by death and division and anger and a creation that's groaning for redemption. But that You have in Jesus reversed the curse of sin. You have reconciled us to the Creator who made us. You have offered us forgiveness. You sent Jesus to die in our place. And because of the resurrection, we know that a new world is coming, a new creation is coming. Things are not always going to be as they are, but they will be as they should be.

Lord, I just pray if there's anybody on this call who is seeking and skeptical and has a lot of questions, that today they might investigate the claims of Jesus. Lord, I pray if there's any discouraged women watching this morning who are just in the thick of family life and motherhood and just all kinds of things going on in their world, that You would give them a fresh dose of encouragement and a fresh dose of hope to know that You are using them and through their lives and their witness you are declaring Yourself to the world.

Lord, I’m thankful for this incredible ministry, and I pray that you give them favor and blessing. In Your name we pray, amen.

Erin: Amen. Thanks for being with us this morning, Daniel, you really have infused a lot of hope into my Easter this week. I’m grateful for you, grateful for this book. We're going to drop the link for your book The Characters of Easter. I love the subtitle The Villains, Heroes, Cowards, and Crooks Who Witnessed History's Biggest Miracle. We're going to drop the link for how to get it for yourself thanks again Daniel.

Nancy: That's Erin Davis and Daniel Darling, talking about the women who had the privilege of breaking the news to the other followers of Jesus, that He was alive! The link that Erin just mentioned can be found in the transcript of this program at ReviveOurHearts.com.

Now, let's go back to that Grounded episode from a couple of years ago. Here's Dannah Gresh.

Dannah: Open your Bibles to Matthew 28 with me, if you're able. I want to read the testimony of the women at the tomb to you. But before I do, I’ve got to take you back to March 17, at approximately 7:55 p.m. when I, Dannah Gresh, saw a UFO.

Now, there were no little green men with big, black eyes. But as I was driving, I saw an object that to this day remains unidentified—that is what an unidentified flying object is. It was this bright orb that glowed like the sun in the darkening sky at dusk. 

I thought to myself, Is that a planet? But it grew rapidly larger and larger, and it was coming straight towards me. And then suddenly, the orb split into three bright circles. It was soon joined by blue flashing lights on one side and red flashing lights on the other. My pulse quickened, and I broke into a sweat. What else was it going to do? What is this? And here's the weird thing. I kind of hoped that it wouldn't veer off course.

As terrified as I was, I wanted to be a part of this magnificent happening. Right about now you might think, am I still on Grounded? Is this Dannah Gresh? Did she just say she was gonna read Matthew 28? Yes, hold on. Listen to me. As this thing flew above me, I could see that it was a triangular-shaped object. But it was eerily silent. 

Friend, it was the strangest and most mysterious thing I've ever experienced. And the object remains unidentified, though I suspect a B-2 Stealth Spirit Bomber. That's my story. I'm sticking to it. Here's the thing. I've never felt what I felt that evening. It was the most intense fear I've ever known mingled with this strange curiosity. And it was all on steroids. 

As Easter approaches and I think about all the times surrounding Christ's birth and His resurrection, that the people that were eyewitnesses to those events were told don't fear, do not fear. I wonder is that the mixture of absolute terror combined with inexplicable exhilaration that the women at the tomb felt that day that I felt that night to some degree? Is that what those women felt when they went to tend to the body of Jesus that found out He was not there? 

I'm gonna let you decide. You see, we often overlook just how inexplicable and fearful what those women would have experienced could have been. They didn't just find a quiet, empty tomb with an angel standing stately beside it. They experienced something magnificently fearful. May I read to you the testimony of Mary Magdalene, and quote "the other Mary" as recorded in Matthew 28, verses 1–8.

Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb. And behold, there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow. And for fear of him the guards trembled and became like dead men.

But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. He is not here, for he has risen, as he said. Come, see the place where he lay. [Almost as if he was sure they wouldn’t believe it, come, see the place where he lay.] Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold, he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you.” So they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 

I gotta read this extra verse here. It says,

And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

Sometimes I think it's good to just let the Scripture do the teaching, and I think I'll let that do it. I think I'll let it do just that today. But I do want to say this, may we be like these women, astounded by what they saw and eager to tell the story.

Father God, make us like these women, I pray Lord. As I sat in my prayer chair this morning, I prayed for every woman who would hear my voice right now and every man. Father, may the reading of this Scripture stir their hearts to believe and to go tell this story. Lord, may it draw us like a magnet to the rest of the story that means we might read it, devour it, understand it, to the degree that we are able and want to tell others in the name of Jesus. I pray this, amen.

Nancy: Amen! That’s the co-host of Revive Our Hearts and the videocast Grounded, Dannah Gresh, praying that the truth of Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection would sink deeply into our hearts and affect every aspect of our lives.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead is such good news we can’t stand to keep it to ourselves! It’s worth celebrating, not only here on the day after Resurrection Sunday, but all year long. I hope you’ll rejoice and keep being amazed, just like those women were on that glorious Sunday morning, next to that empty tomb. I don't ever want to get over the wonder.

I want to take just a moment to say thank you and welcome to our new Revive Partners. In March we got the word out about that special group of people, and we challenged you to sign up. Many listeners responded and said, “I want to step up. I want to become a Revive Partner." These people pray regularly. THey want to spread the word and the message of Revive Our Hearts to others, and they support us financially every month. And if you’re one of those new Revive Partners, thank you so much! You should be receiving your welcome bundle of resources and devotionals soon, if you haven’t already gotten it. Welcome to the team. Thank you for being a Revive Partner. 

A reminder as Erin shared, if you go to the transcript of today’s program, under “Resources Related to this Episode,” you can get more information about today's guest, Dan Darling, and his book, The Characters of Easter. You’ll find it at ReviveOurHearts.com. If you have any questions, feel free to call us at 1-800-569-5959. 

Well, because of the resurrection of Christ, we can boldly come before the Father and cry out to Him in prayer. In fact, for the rest of this month, prayer is going to be our emphasis here on Revive Our Hearts. Tomorrow, we’re going to talk about how desperate times call for desperate prayers. I think you'd agree that the days we’re living in qualify as desperate times, don’t you? 

Please join us tomorrow, for Revive Our Hearts.

Revive Our Hearts with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth wants you to have complete freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ.https://amzn.to/3LF09rd 

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