Episode 2: A Crooked Family Tree

Katie Laitkep: What is the purpose of your family? Erin Davis says you can strategize all you want, but ultimately, it’s God. 

Erin Davis: Families are God’s idea! God is at work through our families. What is that work? What is God doing? He’s doing the work of redemption!

Katie: Welcome to The Deep Well with Erin Davis. I’m Katie Laitkep. In this season, Erin is bringing us behind the doors of a very dysfunctional family. If Jacob and his sons were around today, their stories would be considered sensational and scandalous! That makes some perfect candidates to put God’s glory on display. Here’s Erin, continuing in the series “Dysfunction.”

Erin: In fourth grade I was supposed to give a presentation on a famous Missourian—I’m a Missourian, born and raised. My dad reminded me that I am the great-great-great-great-great-great-great-granddaughter of Daniel Boone.

So we had to guess what Daniel Boone’s granddaughters would have looked like. We had to come up with a costume based on what we had in the closet. But my mom did it; she could work wonders. 

I remember marching up in front of my fourth grade class and explaining that I was the great-great-great-great-great-great-great-(seven times) granddaughter of Daniel Boone. My mom taught me to count it on my fingers.

Now, if you don’t know, Daniel Boone was a great American pioneer. He was one of our nation’s first heroes. You might know him as the guy that wore the coonskin cap. And we all wish that our family trees were full of straight branches, people that we admire, people who got it right. But for most of us (in fact, I would argue, for all of us) our family trees are made up instead of crooked branches—branches that have been gnarled by sin, by disappointment, by mistakes, betrayals, losses, trauma, rebellion, grief. This is certainly not a modern phenomenon. 

The seed of Joseph’s family tree was Adam. Where do I get that? Well, Acts 17:26 says, “And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place.” 

I love that verse because what it teaches us is that God chose the moment of history that you and I would live in. God chose (the verse says) the “boundaries of our dwelling,” which means God chose our zip code. God chose your family. Have you ever paused to ask why? Verse 27 gives the answer: “That they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him.Yet he is actually not far from each one of us.”

This little passage tells us that God has placed you in this moment, in your zip code, in your family so that you might seek and find Him. It’s one of the many ways that our families are missionaries; they are meant to move us toward our Savior. 

Joseph’s line started with Adam, but who were the branches? Now, I’ve had trouble keeping all this straight as I’ve been studying it, so we’ve created a graphic. We’re going to drop it in the episode notes for this podcast to help you visually see Joseph’s family tree. You can also just Google: “Joseph’s Family Tree.” It will pop up because I’ve looked at it a lot.

But let’s go back to Father Abraham, found in Genesis chapters 12–23. Those chapters describe an old couple. First their names were Abram and Sarai, and then God changed their names to Abraham and Sarah in Genesis chapter 17. 

Abraham and Sarah were the beneficiaries of a unique covenant promise that God was going to make them into a nation. Let’s read about it in Genesis 18:17–19: 

The Lord said, "Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do, seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? For I have chosen him, that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing righteousness and justice, so that the Lord may bring to Abraham what he has promised him."

I hope one of the things this series does for you is give you a heightened sensitivity to family language; it’s all over the Bible! God is saying here that He has a plan for Abraham’s family. They are going to become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth are going to be blessed through them. 

Abraham’s going to do something, commanding his children something related to this promise. This isn’t just family language, it’s heritage language. Which made no sense at the time that God was saying all of this, because Abraham and Sarah were very old. (I know I already said that, but the Bible repeats it, and so do I.) 

I’m sure if Sarah could give us commentary about the way that she is recorded in Scripture, she’d probably be like, “I get it! I was old!” Because the Bible says it over and over. The Bible also tells us repeatedly that they were infertile.

Everybody knows that to have descendants to continue the family line, to command your children, you had to have children. Sarah didn’t need an ultrasound to figure that out. She didn’t need modern medicine. She knew she didn’t have children, and how was the Lord going to build a nation through a couple that had no children?

But this was a covenant based on God’s promises, which He always keeps. The covenant is repeated two more times in Genesis, that through Abraham—an old, infertile man—all the nations of the earth would be blessed.

And if you know the story, you know they had that promised child, and his name was Isaac. So we can close the baby book and enjoy the happy ending, right? Except in this part of Joseph’s family line, there was slave ownership, there was bitter jealousy, there was deception, there was sibling rivalry. There is a lot of junk in Abraham’s branch of the family tree!

If we keep reading, we get to Genesis 24, we come to the courtship of that promised boy—Abraham’s son, Isaac, and his wife Rebekah. It’s very romantic! Let me read it to us. It’s from Genesis 24:62–65.

Now Isaac had returned from Beer-lahai-roi and was dwelling in the Negeb. And Isaac went out to meditate in the field toward evening. 

Can’t you picture it? The sun is setting and Isaac is out in the field meditating. 

And he lifted up his eyes and saw, and behold, there were camels coming. And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she dismounted from the camel and said to the servant, "Who is that man, walking in the field to meet us?" The servant said, "It is my master." So she took her veil and covered herself.

This romantic meeting of this couple . . . But we need to fast-forward for a moment and park in Genesis 25. And if you’re having trouble keeping all this straight as we build this family tree, I say, “Don’t worry about it.” This summer I went to a family reunion for my own family, and easily half the people there I didn’t know who they were or who they connected with. 

It’s okay if you can’t keep it all straight, but here’s the big idea I want you to hold in your head, in your heart, in your notes. There’s brokenness in every family, and there’s no brokenness too big for God. God can, God is, doing a redemptive work even in the most broken family—even in yours.

I think Joseph’s heritage (whether we can keep the branches straight or not) has something to teach us about our own heritage. Genesis 25:21–28: 

And Isaac [remember, that’s Abraham’s son] prayed to the Lord for his wife, because she was barren. And the Lord granted his prayer, and Rebekah his wife conceived. The children struggled together within her, and she said, "If it is thus, why is this happening to me?" [Every pregnant woman has probably felt that feeling!] So she went to inquire of the Lord. And the Lord said to her, "Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you shall be divided; the one shall be stronger than the other, the older shall serve the younger." 

When her days to give birth were completed, behold, there were twins in her womb. The first came out red, all his body like a hairy cloak, so they called his name Esau. Afterward his brother came out with his hand holding Esau's heel, so his name was called Jacob. Isaac was sixty years old when she bore them. When the boys grew up, Esau was a skillful hunter, a man of the field, while Jacob was a quiet man, dwelling in [his] tents.” 

Have you ever had two kids: they have the same parents, they have the same upbringing, but couldn’t be more different?! That’s true of my twin sister, Nikki, and I. And it’s true of these twins, Jacob and Esau. Verse 28: 

Isaac loved Esau because he ate of his game, but Rebekah loved Jacob. 

Okay, we’ve already got some threads to pull on here as we’re looking at this famous family. One is barrenness and infertility.

Modern medicine lets us figure out who the “problem” is. (I say that in quotes.) When a couple can’t have children they’re trying to figure out, “Is it him? Is it her? Is it both of us?” But here in God’s Word, God shows us, without medical tests, that Isaac’s momma had trouble getting pregnant—that’s Sarah. And Isaac’s wife had trouble getting pregnant—that’s Rebekah.

My own momma struggled to conceive, just like her momma before her, my grandma. (I’ve got to say, Jason and I didn’t have that problem.) Again, we see that family doesn’t just happen! It’s easy to look at other people and think their family must have been so effortless. 

They found the right person. They married young, and their marriage seems so happy! Or, they had children effortlessly—no infertility, no miscarriages. Or, they’re raising their children with no problems—“How’d they get those kids when I got these kids?!” It’s so easy to look at other people and say, “Uh, man, their family is effortless!”

But we see in these very early families that family is never effortless! In these ancient marriages, and in our modern families, sin has stamped our DNA. We live in a world and we live in families that are broken by sin. And so often, family doesn’t just happen.

It doesn’t mean God’s design is flawed, it means that we are flawed. It’s something that we’re going to talk about often in this series. Sin often gets passed through the generations. And the good stuff gets passed through the generations. The good, the bad, and the ugly, it gets passed through our family line. What does it all mean? What can God do with it all?

And then, this important family of our faith—of many faiths, actually. All the monotheistic religions come from Abraham—Judaism, Islam—they’re all traced back to this first family. And in this first family, the women, it seems, they struggled to get pregnant. 

Isaac teaches us a simple and profound lesson about our families. Listen to verse 21 again: “And Isaac prayed to the LORD for his wife, because she was barren.” The needs within our family are opportunities to reach toward the One who meets our needs!

One of the things we’re supposed to be doing within our families is praying for each other. I’ve often said that when it comes to motherhood, prayer is my primary work. It’s my first job. It’s not my only job. The refrigerator still needs to be filled with groceries, and I still need to manage the schedule. There is still discipline that needs to happen and discipleship that needs to happen. But I consider it my first job to pray for those sons of mine, to pray for those parents of mine, to pray for those siblings of mine.

Now, lest you’re picturing me as some great prayer warrior, I’m not. It’s a struggle. I really like the thought of my family praying for me. I struggle to find the time and energy to pray for them, but I do think it’s my first job within my family.

Praying for each other, praying for the members of your household, is one way you can follow the example of the patriarchs. . .and you can start today! You don’t have to buy anything. You don’t have to rearrange your schedule. You don’t have a heart-to-heart with anybody. You could just think, What are the needs within my family? How can I take those to God?

I feel like this part of the story gives us another question that’s worth really asking between you and the Holy Spirit: what has been passed between the generations of your family? I’m going to unpack this in depth in another episode. But, be thinking about it. Here, infertility.

What if it’s anger? What if it’s bitterness? What if it’s addiction? All the science shows us that addicted parents have children who are more likely to be addicted. What if it’s poverty? What if it is infertility?

It might be something that’s so normal in your family that you never thought to take it to the Lord. But Isaac did, and God listened. His wife received a double portion, two babies at once within her womb!

And verse 22 describes that pregnancy, remember? “The children struggled together within her, and she said, ‘If it is thus, why is this happening to me?’” Keep reading: “So she went to inquire of the Lord. And the Lord said to her, ‘Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you shall be divided; the one shall be stronger than the other, the older shall serve the younger.’” 

I can’t imagine this is exactly a comforting thought to Rebekah. She just wants to know why the babies are so active inside of her. And the Lord says, “Well, it’s because there are two nations, and the older is going to serve the younger.” Which, in their culture, was a sure sign that something was wrong in the family! 

This birth story brings us to Jacob. If you follow the footnotes in your Bible, it might say that Jacob means, “He takes the heel,” or “He cheats.” Names matter in Scripture. I’ve delivered four sons into this world, and I can tell you they all came out as themselves.

Eli was so tiny, just six pounds ten ounces, but from the very beginning he had big feelings. He still has very big feelings. Noble, on the other hand, baby number two, came into the world calm and quiet.

And even as an itty bitty baby, I would look at him, and he would stare at me so intensely that it seemed like it was staring into my soul! He’s still calm and quiet, and he still sometimes looks at me so intensely that I feel like he’s staring into my soul.

Judah came out happy, and he has stayed that way. I’ve often said that I have a sensitive one, a serious one, and a silly one. And then along came Ezra and, frankly, I don’t remember how he came into the world, because I had three other boys by then. 

He’s still a little guy—only four as I’m recording this. But what we’ve said about him for years is that, “He has an overactive giggle box!” The boy loves to laugh! They just were who they were from birth.

Now, I’m not saying it’s all nature or no nurture. Most scientists agree that it’s a combination of both, but Jacob came out a cheater, and a cheater he did stay. You’re going to have to read Genesis 27 to see about the twins’ young adult years. 

It involves a bowl of stew and hairy arms and a mom who played favorites and a high stakes sibling rivalry, so much so that it caused the family to split. I’ve wondered where to insert this thought, so let’s just insert it here.

I’ve had several conversations with friends and women that I go to church with lately where their family has split. It’s not always a divorce. In fact, what I’m hearing most often now is young adult children who have decided to cut off all contact with their parents—so much so that support groups are on the rise for parents who are cut out of their children’s life.

I hope you don’t think that’s a modern phenomenon. Because what happens here with these brothers is that they decided to have nothing to do with each other. They went their separate ways. Listen to Genesis 27, verse 41: 

Now Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing with which his father had blessed him and Esau said to himself, "The days of mourning for my father are approaching; then I will kill my brother Jacob." 

I don’t think my brother, whose name, ironically, is Jacob, has ever put me on a hit list. So my family is one step ahead of this one. I feel like we deserve a pat on the back for that.

But I need to keep reminding you of something: this is the family of Abraham, through whom God promised all the nations would be blessed. I need you to see really clearly, maybe clearer than you’ve ever seen it before, that it is surely not because they were the perfect, always-God-honoring family. The family split.

Jacob ran away, and in his running he came to the tent of a man named Laban. You can read that story in Genesis 28 through 31. Laban had two daughters, Rachel and Leah. One was beautiful. She was so beautiful that when Jacob saw her he kissed her and wept! (Eat your heart out, Hallmark!)

Except . . . Jacob got tricked into marrying Rachel’s sister, Leah, and then he married Rachel, too. And what we see in this branch of the family tree are some strained marriages. They were built from day one on the premise of deception. Jacob thought he was marrying one girl (she was veiled). He wakes up the next morning, and he’s married to the wrong woman! These are marriages with a great deal of hurt! 

Several years ago I was doing research for a book that I wrote called Connected. I went to a whole bunch of cities, trying to understand loneliness in the church. 

I learned a lot of things that didn’t surprise me, but one of the things that did was that in city after city, group after group, the loneliest women were the married women, women who had a spouse. I’m not talking about women who lived alone, but women who had a husband.

Many of them were women who had children, and they felt like nobody understood them, nobody looked to understand their hearts, nobody “got them.” And what we see in Rachel and Leah are two women with a family who are incredibly lonely in their marriage.

Another bitter feud between relatives was born and another woman who struggled with infertility is part of Joseph’s family tree. Rachel was barren, while her sister Leah had baby after baby after baby. You know, it’s not always the hard stuff in our families that makes us hurt.

On the way to record this podcast series I was on the phone with a friend. Her family has been thrown into a tailspin of despair, and it started with a wedding. They had this beautiful wedding, and this couple came together and were married. It should have been a happy occasion. It was a happy occasion for the bride and groom.

But there was a cousin in the mix who nobody knew had just been broken up with by her boyfriend. That cousin, as I’m saying these words, is now in a mental hospital for trying to take her own life. It was a happy family occasion that put the spotlight on her own longings.

So as I’m talking about dysfunction, please know I’m not just talking about the big, ugly stuff. I’m talking about the things that happen in our families that reveal our brokenness. That young woman was longing for a groom of her own, and she looked down at the path of her life and it seemed hopeless. That’s a sign of dysfunction.

What we see in Rachel and Leah is that neither woman got the family they longed for. Leah had a husband who only had eyes for her sister, and Rachel longed to hold babies of her own. Genesis 30 is fraught with dysfunction. These sisters are always fighting!

And here’s what they were fighting over: who got to sleep with their shared husband. And to make it worse, they kept pushing their female servants toward their husband so that those women could sleep with their husband, too, and give them children.

But this is the chapter where we also finally see Joseph. Look at Genesis 30:22–24: 

Then God remembered Rachel, and God listened to her and opened her womb. She conceived and bore a son and said, "God has taken away my reproach." And she called his name Joseph, saying, "May the Lord add to me another son!" 

Isn’t that interesting? Joseph means, “He will add.”

So even at birth of this baby that Rachel had so longed for, what’s on her mind is that she wants another one! She wants another baby. She still wants a different kind of family. And I’m so like Rachel! I have the family I didn’t know to dream for.

I didn’t know if I would ever be married. I didn’t know if I would ever have kids. I wasn’t somebody who dreamed of those things. I dreamed of a different path. And God, in His mercy, gave me a husband who loves me well. God in His mercy gave me children . . . and ye-e-e-t.

There’s something in me that’s always hoping for a different kind of family. I would have liked a girl. God didn’t give her to me. So, Rachel was still hoping, even at the birth of this baby, for a different kind of family.

And because Rachel got what she wanted, the sisters stopped fighting and, “everybody lived happily ever after,” right? That’s not how it happened. No, there was another family feud, this time between Joseph and his father-in-law, Laban. Yep, the Bible talks about in-law relationships, too. 

Jacob was on the road again because he split the family again. Where did he go? Well, where do any of us go when our family falls apart? He went back to his hometown. And Scripture does record a really sweet moment in Genesis 32 where Esau and Jacob were reconciled . . . but not until after Jacob wrestled with God.

Genesis 32:22–32 is a passage that describes all of that, but there is an important nugget imbedded in the text, Genesis 32:28: “Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed.” God changed Jacob’s name to Israel.

God wasn’ just birthing a family through this man; God was birthing a nation through Abraham’s family. It stands unique among the families of the world. Now, it’s going to take several more generations, but God was revealing part of the plan here in renaming Jacob, “Israel.” 

So in Genesis 33 those twins were reconciled. And then we get to a part of the story that I would prefer to skip over, but I’m committed to getting you to know and love your whole Bible and so we don’t gloss over things here on The Deep Well. 

Genesis 34, the heading in my Bible says “The Defiling of Dinah.”Now, Dinah was Leah’s daughter (remember Leah was the ugly sister making her Joseph’s aunt). And that makes Dinah, get this, Joseph’s half-sister and his cousin. I’m telling you, this is a knotted family tree. 

And what Scripture tells us is that Dinah was raped, and her attacker didn’t just want Dinah’s body once; he wanted to keep her as property. There’s a lot going on in Genesis 34; I’m going to take the fast lane, but you feel free to park in that chapter and explore it for yourself.

Jacob’s sons convinced the rapist and his clan (what we see happening here is tribal warfare) that they needed to be circumcised. Verse 25 Scripture tells us that, “On the third day, when they were [still] sore . . .” If you know your Bible and you understand ancient circumcision, you can see why. 

And while those men were sore (in other words, while they were incapacitated), two of the sons of Jacob (Joseph’s half-brothers) killed all the men in the city where the rapist lived. Verse 27 tells us that they plundered that city. They took what they wanted, including, according to verse 29, “their little ones and their wives.”

I want you to remember this, because it’s good to understand the character of Joseph’s brothers. We’re going to see this again in later chapters. What we see in this part of the family tree is violence, trauma, deceit, sexual sin and abuse. All of these things water the roots of Joseph’s family tree.

To one degree or another, most of these things water the roots of our family tree. My goal here is not that we would just commiserate. It’s true that “misery loves company,” but I want to get us to God’s redemption. But first, it’s good for us to see just how much He can redeem us from.

Genesis 35 takes us to a couple more funerals. There’s the funeral for Rachel, Joseph’s momma. She died in childbirth, giving birth to that second son that she wanted. His name was Benjamin. He was the baby of the family.

And there’s also the funeral of Isaac, Joseph’s grandpa. Genesis 36 is a genealogy. Why are there so many genealogies in the Bible? There are probably lots of reasons, but one seems pretty obvious to me: family matters to God!

That takes us to Genesis 37, where our boy Joseph is finally a teenager. Let’s read Genesis 37:1–2: 

Jacob [now Israel] lived in the land of his father's sojournings, in the land of Canaan. These are the generations of Jacob. Joseph, being seventeen years old, was pasturing the flock with his brothers. He was a boy with the sons of Bilhah and Zilpah, his father's wives. And Joseph brought a bad report of them to their father.

Listen, I’m not big on genealogies. Ancestry.com, don’t call me! And I’m probably not going to call you. It can feel really tedious to me to wade through all of that, and frankly, I’m a little worried about what landmines I’m going to find, because they’re there. But it all matters.

It matters to make this point: that Joseph—who we’re going to spend the next ten episodes of this podcast studying—had a very crooked family tree. 

• It involved strained marriages. 
• It involved infertile women. 
• It involved deception. 
• It involved big time fallings-out. 
• It involved rape. 
• It involved murder. 
• It involved longing.

And yet, there was always a promise.

Let’s hop back to Genesis 35:11–12. This is a blessing that God gave to Jacob as He renamed him Israel. Remember, this is Joseph’s dad. 

And God said to him, “I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply. A nation and a company of nations shall come from you, and kings shall come from your own body. The land that I gave to Abraham and Isaac I will give to you, and I will give the land to your offspring after you.” 

Our messes do not dethrone God. We see in here a command that hasn’t changed since He gave it to the first family: “Be fruitful and multiply” (Gen. 1:27–28). God was saying, “I’m going to do something, trust Me! I’m going to do something through your family!” 

 

He was telling Jacob what he had told Abraham, “A nation is going to come from you, and not just a nation, a company of nations!” Remember the promise? “Kings are going to come from your body.” And if you know your Bible, it’s not just “kings.” It’s the King of kings!

We can see that now because of the Incarnation. Jesus came, and He is the Key that unlocks all of Scripture. So we look at everything backwards, knowing who He is. But there’s no way Abraham could have understood what was being promised, but God knew.

Families are God’s idea! God is at work through our families. What is that work? What is God doing? He’s doing the work of redemption! Somewhere along the way we got this idea that Christians put the gospel on display by being perfect families; that somehow the way we display the mystery of Christ and His Bride is through perfect marriages.

When actually, this is picture: I am a sinner; I will always be a sinner. I’m selfish; I will always be selfish. Sometimes I run away from the very man who wants to love me. And the other says back to me (in my case it’s Jason), “My love for you is everlasting, Erin. You cannot make me unlove you!” So it’s our commitment in the mess that tells a lost world that Jesus will never forsake His own. 

We get this idea that our goal of parenting is to put the gospel on display—and it is. But we think the application of that is by being perfect parents who never have prodigal children. Well, I’m not a perfect parent; I never will be. Sometimes our children will choose the slop of the world over the riches of their father’s house. And that’s actually what showcases the redemption story. It doesn’t matter how far my boys run from me, I will always kill the fatted calf when they come home.

I’m not a perfect parent raising perfect sons. I am a cracked pot raising cracked pots, and that is the story of redemption in the Davis household. It is in feeling out of place in our family of origin—which all of us feel on some level or another, that “we don’t really belong here.” It’s in that feeling that we can say, “This is not my home; this not my forever family. A better home is coming, and it’s built for me by the One I belong with.” 

I’ll say it again, I’ll keep saying it: every family is broken. Our gnarled family trees are a beautiful place for God to work, to redeem, to restore, to showcase who He is!

I was talking with a friend in prepping for this series. She had been doing some digging into her family history, and she found some ugly stuff. She was telling me that it made her sick. And if you took the time to dig into your family tree, you’d find all kinds of stuff you didn’t know was there. You’ve got crooked branches on your tree . . . and so do I.

I needed to take the time to lay this foundation, to see all of that in the life of Joseph, so that we could get to what God does with the reality of our families. There’s a prayer that my friend Tippy has prayed for me (and there are not many seasons of this podcast where I don’t mention Tippy’s name); she is a spiritual mother to me.

I started praying it for my sons before they leave for school every morning. I pray it for other people’s children. The prayer is this: “May they be oaks of righteousness planted by streams of living water.” That’s taken from Isaiah 61:3.

I looked at it again in prepping for this episode, and that’s a passage about how God makes crooked things straight. I want to pray that for your families; I want to pray it over you as Tippy has prayed it for me, and I hope that it will give you great hope as you think about the dysfunction in your own family.

I’m going to close with these verses as my prayer: Isaiah 61, starting in verse 1: 

The Spirit of the Lord God is upon [you], because the Lord has anointed [you] to bring good news to the poor; he has sent [you] to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; [your mission is] to comfort all who mourn; to grant to those who mourn in Zion—to give them . . . beautiful headdress[es] instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, the garment of praise instead of a faint spirit; that [you] may be called oaks of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he may be glorified. [May He build up your] ancient ruins; [may He] raise up the former devastations [in your family, may He] repair the ruined cities, the devastations of many generations. (vv.1–4) Amen.

Katie: Erin Davis has been showing us how God works through broken people and dysfunctional families. If you appreciate hearing this encouragement from Erin, I want to make sure you know you can hear from Erin regularly on Grounded.

It’s a videocast you can catch weekly on Mondays at 9:00 a.m. Eastern. Just subscribe to the Revive Our Hearts YouTube channel, and you’ll be alerted every time Grounded goes live. Or if podcasting is your thing, you can listen to the Grounded podcast every Wednesday.

Hey, Erin, if people subscribe to the YouTube channel or in their favorite podcast app, what can they expect when the new episode of Grounded pops up?

Erin: You can expect two things. We have a two-fold mission, and that is to give women hope and perspective. We all need those two things really regularly. I’m joined by two fabulous co-hosts, Dannah Gresh and Portia Collins. We always have really wise, really Bible-centered guests on. It’s just an ongoing conversation, really, about how we can walk out our faith in Jesus Christ in practical ways, day to day.

Katie: It is one of the highlights of my week because it feels like a candid conversation between friends, which is a lot like Erin Unscripted. We have Erin Unscripted on each episode of The Deep Well. During this part of the podcast, audience members help us out in asking questions. Let’s listen.

Erin Unscripted

Meredith: Erin, my name is Meredith, and I just wanted to say I love that you shared the “oaks of righteousness” passage. Hearing that you came from a broken family, and I came from a broken family, I have gotten that oaks of righteousness since I was first saved. And so hearing you say it was just a massive confirmation from the Lord! It gives me chills saying it! Love it.

Erin: Mmm. It’s a beautiful passage of Scripture.

Diana: Hi, I’m Diana. In talking about the barrenness and the “coincidence” of these three matriarchs of this great family . . . So many women and friends of mine struggle with that. I guess I never put it together. I knew they all three struggled with that. What do you think God is telling us with that?

Erin: Well, I think a lot of what we say to women and men who are struggling with infertility is not helpful. Sometimes we try to draw really straight lines from passages like this that don’t help the situation at all. 

Because, what happened is that all these women did eventually get babies. Sometimes when we’re speaking to infertile couples the story is, “These couples were infertile, but they got a baby.” Not everybody gets a baby. 

These women were not all necessarily blood related. So it wasn’t like a mom who was infertile, a grandma who was infertile, all the way down like can sometimes happen in our families. I think God works in all kinds of families. Scripture is clear that God opens the womb and God closes the womb, but that doesn’t mean He always opens the womb.

I’ve known lots of women who have prayed. They’ve had at least a mustard grain seed of faith. They’ve trusted God for it, and it just doesn’t happen for them. So I think we have to take the conversation bigger, which is that God meets our deepest longings in other ways.

I said in this episode I have four sons; I longed for a girl. It’s not going to happen for me, but it doesn’t mean that God is ignoring me or that He wanted harm for me or He didn’t think I had the chops to be a mom for a girl (which maybe I don’t!). It just means that things don’t always go according to our plans.

So I would just steer away from saying much at all, really. I think we can just do more harm than good there. We’ve been talking about it here, we talked about it in this episode. Sometimes prayer for people who are struggling is such a tremendous gift that we give them. So to continue praying for God’s will in that woman’s life really is a significant thing.

Katie: I’ve been reflecting on several women in the Bible who were unable to conceive. I’m thinking of Sarah, Hannah, Elizabeth, even Samson’s mom. I don’t think we know her name, but we do know she longed to have children. Is there something significant about God using barren women to accomplish His purpose?

Erin: Yes, it is a pattern in Scripture. I think of Hannah, Samuel’s momma (see 1 Samuel 1:9–18) , who prayed so hard for her baby that the priest thought she was drunk. I think of Elizabeth, John the Baptist’s momma (see Luke 1). And Mary, we don’t have any reason to believe that she was infertile, but she was a virgin, so there’s no reason to believe that that came through natural means of conception.

Where my mind naturally goes is to the making of Eve, where the Lord put Adam into a deep sleep as He created Eve from his rib (see Gen. 2:21–22). For me, that’s just about not having any illusion that we do it on our own. In our humanness we will convince ourselves, “I solved this problem; it was my tenacity that got me there!”

Or even, “I prayed hard enough, and thank goodness I didn’t quit praying because God finally answered!” There are those situations where God is making it very clear, “This is in spite of you, not because of you.” And I see that pattern in the barren women.

Katie: Erin, what will we hear in the next episode of this “Dysfunction” series? 

Erin: We’re continuing to walk our way through the story of Jacob and his sons, and as we do this, the question emerges: is it ever right to play favorites with your children?

Katie: You can find that answer right now by going to the next episode of The Deep Well. 

The Deep Well with Erin Davis, is part of the Revive Our Hearts podcast family, calling women to freedom, fullness and fruitfulness in Christ!

*Offers available only during the broadcast of the podcast season.