Episode 1: Jesus in the Old Testament

Erika VanHaitsma: You can be acquainted with people a long time before really getting to know them. Erin Davis gives us a powerful example.

Erin Davis: Every mama listening will relate to this experience. You grow a baby inside of you for forty long weeks and already they are your beloved child, but you can’t quite picture their face. You wonder, are they going to have your husband’s nose, or are they going to have hair or not? And if they do, what color is it going to be? And sure, you get to have ultrasounds. And as much as I loved seeing my sons on ultrasounds, let’s be honest. They looked like little aliens on those black and white pictures—although the technology has evolved even since I had my own babies. I didn't know if my children were going to be boys or girls, And so, it was like we kind of had a record on repeat in the delivery room each time: “It’s a boy! It’s a boy! It’s a boy! It’s a boy!”

By the last one I was sure I was getting a girl, so I was imagining little dresses and painting her room in pink. Then I heard those familiar words, “It’s a boy.” I will never forget the moment. I was blessed to have it four times, when all of that dreaming about what my children would look like became reality. They placed that baby on my chest. I looked at those little faces, and said, “Oh, there you are!”

Welcome to The Deep Well with Erin Davis. I’m Erika VanHaitsma. 

Erin’s beginning a new season called, “The Other Side of Jesus.” Now you may have heard about Jesus for a long time, but in this season, we are on a quest to get to know Him in a much deeper way. Here’s Erin.

Erin: Though I had a pretty good idea, certainly by baby number three, that my babies would be born with blonde hair and blue eyes and button noses; they are like 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0 of the same kid—once I could finally see them, once faith became sight. Every single one of those boys was so much more than I ever dared hope.

As we jump into this new series on The Deep Well called “The Other Side of Jesus,” I hope you have one of those “oh, there you are” moments about Him. In fact, I hope you have many of those moments as we open our Bibles and look at the character of Jesus.

One of the goals of this podcast is to defamiliarize Scripture, which might sound strange, because of course, I want you to be familiar with Scripture. I want you to know it. I want you to trust it. I want you to live it. But I also want you to see parts of your Bible that maybe you’ve heard a thousand sermons on, or maybe you’ve read a million times, or maybe you’ve seen them etched into shelves worth of coffee cups. I want you to see those parts of your Bible as fresh wonder. And this season, it’s not a verse we’re going to look at, not a single story, not a one chapter of the Bible. In fact, we’re going to jump around a lot in this episode in particular. In this season, I want you to become familiar in a new way with the person of Jesus. 

Faithful Deep Well listeners, I need to make a confession. I stopped dead in my tracks not long ago with the shocking realization that though this is the ninth season of The Deep Well, and you’re listening to the sixtieth episode, all glory to God, I have never dedicated a season of TheDeep Well to the one that the whole Bible is about: Jesus! So, we’ve got to fix that starting now.

The goal of this series is that you would see the other side of Jesus, the side of Him that maybe you’ve never seen before. So as we get started, I want you to close your eyes (unless you’re driving down the road while you’re listening to this). I want you to picture Jesus. Ask yourself this question: “What shape do your ideas of Jesus take?” I’ll let you sit in that for just a second.

You can open your eyes. I think most of us know that He isn’t really the handsome man with the blonde flowing locks that we may have seen as a picture of Him hanging in our Sunday school classroom from when we were kids. He is the King of kings. He’s the Lord of lords. He’s our mighty Counselor, our Prince of Peace, mighty God, suffering Savior, coming King. Yes, He is all of those things, but He’s also so much more.

In this episode, as I said, we’re going to look at the other side of Jesus, and we’re going to start with the side of Jesus recorded in the Old Testament. Yes, the Old Testament. It’s time for me to say my favorite words, “Open your Bible.” You don’t have to go very far. We’re going to start in Genesis in 1:1, so that should be pretty easy to find. You may not even have to flip there to know what it says. Likely, it is, I hope, a familiar passage. It says this, “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” 

Did you see Jesus? He’s right there! Don’t pull a mental hamstring; we’re going to find Him together. I want you to know and love your whole Bible, so let’s jump to the New Testament. We’re going to head to the book of Colossians, specifically Colossians 1. So, move to the right of where you just were in Genesis 1. We’re going to head to Colossians 1.

One of the things I hope that I am graciously hammering into you as you listen to this podcast is that every text is part of a context. And the context here in Colossians 1 is that Paul is describing Jesus. In Colossians 1:16, Paul wrote,

For by him [by Jesus] all things were created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Now, let me read it one more time. Where Paul wrote “him” I’m going to swap in the word “Jesus.” “For by Jesus all things were created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible. Whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities, all things were created through Jesus and for Jesus.”

Through Jesus all things were created, Paul is telling us, including the light and the dark, the earth and the sea, the fish and the birds, the man and the woman that are described in Genesis 1. 

We’re kind of on a tour of the first chapter of books of the Bible, so let’s go ahead and turn to John 1:1–2. Again, I hope this is a familiar passage, but I hope you’ll look at it with fresh eyes this time and ask the question, “What is this revealing about Jesus?”

In John 1:1–2 John wrote,

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

Again the “he” there is Jesus. Jesus was in the beginning with God. Genesis 1 records the first inspired words of the inspired Word of God. Those first words introduce us to the triune God that the whole Bible is about—the God who creates all things and rules all things by His word and by His Spirit. And we have to know our New Testament to recognize Him, but Jesus is right there in your Bible from the beginning. Just like He was right there at creation when the story of the world began. 

As we continue to look for Jesus in the Old Testament, I’m going to borrow from Glen a helpful grid. We’ll drop a link to this article, “Where Is Jesus in the Old Testament,” in the episode notes. But he gives us a three-pronged framework to look for Jesus throughout the entire Bible, including the Old Testament. And here’s that grid:

• Christ is patterned.
• Christ is promised.
• Christ is present.

What does that mean? Well, the biographies of many Bible characters are one way that we can see Jesus in the Old Testament. Through the lives of people who gave us a pattern or a shadow of Jesus. 

Now, I should tell you that when it comes to sewing, I cannot even load a bobbin. I’ve tried and failed many times! My mama, on the other hand, and her mama before her, the woman I affectionately call my red-headed granny, were both gifted seamstresses. And so even though I can’t sew, I’m familiar with a dress pattern. You used to be able to buy them at the counter at JCPenneys. Some of you listening don't even know what that is! You would purchase them, they were inside a white envelope, there would be these thin pieces of paper cut into shapes. Then you would pin those shapes onto the fabric, and you would cut them out and sew them together to make something beautiful like a dress. So, the pattern is not the dress. The pattern is a picture of something better. And there are so many patterns of Jesus in the Old Testament, starting with Adam, the first man.

Genesis 3 describes the fall of man as a result of Adam and Eve’s sin, and because of that sin, all mankind suffers. Listen for the pattern found in 1 Corinthians 15:21–22:

For as by a man came death, by a man has also come the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

You see it? Where the first Adam introduced death through sin, Jesus, a better Adam, brought in resurrection by his death. Like Adam, all men and women must die. In Christ, all men and women can experience new life.

How about Noah? Noah lived in a culture of wickedness and rebellion against God’s law. Genesis 6:9 tells us that Noah was a righteous man. So how does Noah give us a pattern for Jesus? Listen to Matthew 24:37–39. The context here is that this is Jesus talking:

For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Jesus compared His return and the future judgment to the judgment in Noah’s day. Noah and his family escaped God’s judgment because of Noah’s righteousness. But the rest of the world, everybody else, those who would not submit their hearts and lives to God’s authority, would perish. That’s the bad news. But here’s the good. Noah’s salvation is a pattern. It’s a foretaste of the salvation that we have in Christ. I’m not making this up! Listen to 1 Peter 3:20–22:

When God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is eight persons, were bought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with the angels, authorities, and powers having been subject to him.

Do you see how the pattern of Noah pointed forward to something way better in Jesus? Taken out of context, it could seem like this passage is telling us that we receive salvation through baptism. No, salvation is grace alone through faith alone . . . period. But there’s a reason why I cry at every single baptism I’ve ever seen. It’s because baptism is an outward expression of inward change.

Peter’s making a parallel here to the Old Testament. Noah’s righteousness, which was not perfect, saved him and a handful of other people—eight to be exact. But it was a pattern of something and someone better. Jesus’s righteousness was perfect, is perfect, and because Jesus’ righteousness is perfect, He was able to make a way for many, many more than eight. All of us who call on the name of Jesus, people from every tongue, tribe, and nation, to be saved from the punishment we deserve for our wickedness. Noah and his family passed through literal waters. In baptism, we are plunged into the waters as a symbol that we are buried with Christ and raised with newness of life.

Truly, there’s nothing new in the New Testament. And when we start to look for ways that the Old Testament and the New Testament connect, the ways that the people in the Old Testament give us a pattern for Jesus, Bible study starts to get really exciting. It becomes a treasure hunt. Everything you read is like a lightbulb going off in your head as you start to ask the question, “How does this pattern Jesus?”

Esther risked her life to save her people, the Jews. Jesus is a better Esther. He gave his life to save the lives of Jews and Gentiles, which I’m grateful for since I’m not a Jew. 

Joseph’s life was marked by unjust suffering. He was thrown into a pit by his brothers. He was thrown into prison by Potiphar. Yet Joseph was faithful. Genesis 50:20 tells us that what the enemy meant for evil, God used for good to save many lives of people who would have surely perished otherwise. You see it? Jesus is the better Joseph. He faced unjust suffering. He was also punished though He was innocent. And what the enemy, my enemy, your enemy, what he meant for evil, the brutal death of God’s own Son, God used it for good to save many of us who would have perished in our sin otherwise.

Hebrews 3:1–6 tells us that Jesus is the better Moses. Moses was faithful in God’s house as a servant. Jesus is faithful over God’s house as a Son. 

Matthew 12:41 tells us that Jesus is the greater Jonah. He is calling more than just the Ninevites to repentance. 

Jesus is the greater Isaac, if you’re familiar with that story. God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, and Jesus was sacrificed out of obedience to his Father.

Jesus is the great Melchizedek. He is our great high priest. Jesus is the greater David. He is the King of a kingdom that will never be shaken.

We could keep going, but you get the idea. I want you to go on that treasure hunt on your own.

I hope that I drill into your heart and mind and my own on The Deep Well. The Bible is not a book about you. It’s not a book about me. It’s a book about God! And we see Jesus’s pattern over and over and over in the Old Testament. Like my red-headed granny’s sewing patterns, when we start stitching those patterns together, we get a more complete, more beautiful picture of Jesus. 

 

Jesus is not just patterned in the Old Testament, Jesus is also promised. The Israelites of the Old Testament, they get a bad rap. They were whinny and stiff-necked (that’s God’s word, not mine). They were a stubborn people in a constant cycle of rebellion, judgment, repentance. Rebellion, judgment, repentance. They’ve earned that reputation of being stubborn.

But one thing that the Old Testament Israelites did well that we could all aspire to is that they longed for the arrival of a savior. They lived with the expectation that He could arrive at any time, which is why it’s so tragic that when he did arrive, they didn’t recognize him. Where did that expectation come from? That collective longing to see the Savior in their day? Well, it came from the prophets that God appointed, and the words that God gave those prophets to say. 

In Romans 3:21 Paul said, “The law and the prophets bear witness to Jesus.” Now “the law and the prophets” is kind of shorthand that Paul would use to describe the Old Testament. Paul was a Jew, a zealous one, so he would’ve been trained from very young to expect a Messiah. But it wasn’t until Jesus forced literal scales to fall off of Paul’s eyes that Paul had that moment, “Oh, it’s you!”

Isaiah 53 might be the most famous example of an Old Testament prophecy that we can now recognize was about Jesus. I hope it’s a passage you love. Listen to Isaiah 53:3–5:

He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
He was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.

Is there a more Jesus-saturated passage? This is just one of more than three hundred Old Testament prophecies that point to Jesus and then were fulfilled by Him during His life on earth. I’ve often said I think it takes way more faith not to believe in Jesus than it takes to believe in Him. Three hundred prophecies fulfilled! If you want to jump down that rabbit trail, I say, “Go for it.” Here are some verses for you to write down to get you started. 

• Prophecies about Jesus’s unique birth: Isaiah 7:14, Hosea 11:1 
• Prophecies about His earthly ministry: Isaiah 61:1
• Prophecies about the way he would die: Psalm 22 (and you will recognize these as the words that Jesus spoke from the cross)
• Prophecies about that He would bless the nations: Genesis 12:3

And there are so many more! That was nowhere close to three hundred. So a great deal of the Old Testament is dedicated to promising that Jesus was coming and that His arrival would be good news of great joy for all people. 

So Jesus was patterned. Jesus was promised. And Jesus was present.

You might be thinking, Okay, okay, so there was a lot of pointing to Jesus and talking to Jesus. But where was Jesus during those thousands of years recorded in the first thirty-nine books of the Bible? Well, He was also present.

When Moses faced the burning bush and he asked God who He was, do you remember God’s response? It’s in Exodus 3:14.

Say this to the people of Israel: "I AM has sent me to you."

Somehow, I think that might not have given Moses a lot of confidence.

“Who sent you?”

“I AM.”

“I am who?” That’s the answer that God gave him! “Say, ‘I AM has sent you.’” 

Well, there’s nothing new in the New Testament, so listen to Jesus’ words in John 8:58.

Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.

Jesus was not just saying he’s older than Abraham, because Jesus has always existed. He was saying something that the Jewish audience he was teaching to would’ve understood. They would’ve known the reference. He was saying, “ME. I am the ‘I AM’ of your forefathers.” And if they had ears to hear, they would’ve thought, “That was you?!” 

How about Jude 5:

Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus who saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

Who led the children of Israel by a pillar of smoke by day and by a pillar of fire by night? Jesus did. Who held back the waters so the Israelites could walk through on dry ground and then release the waters and drown Pharoah and his armies? Well, according to Jude 5, Jesus did! He wasn’t waiting in heaven for his big moment to come to earth. Wherever God was working, Jesus was there. And wherever God is working today, Jesus is there.

How about 1 Corinthians 10:1–5. It’s also about the Israelites as they fled Egypt.

For I don’t want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the same spiritual Rock [capital Rock in your Bible] that followed them, and the Rock was Christ. Nevertheless, with most of them God was not pleased, for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

Paul’s listeners would’ve thought, That was Him? That was Jesus? They would’ve known about the rock that the Israelites drank from in the wilderness, and Paul says clearly the Rock was Christ! Elsewhere in Scripture Jesus is described as the precious cornerstone, the rock of ages, the fountain of living water that you and I can drink from. And Paul’s saying, “Guys, guys, guys! It’s Jesus!” Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. 

And so, however, we see Him working in the New Testament, we can also see Him working in the Old Testament. He has always operated from the trinitarian pattern—from the Father, through the Son, by the Spirit. We don’t need a single seminary class. You don’t have to have a huge concordance. You don’t need somebody to interpret. You don’t have to be the smartest person in the room—I never am—to see Jesus in the Old Testament. He’s there! You just got to know to look for the pattern, the promise, and His presence.

What do we do when we find Him? What do we do when we realize that Jesus is all over our Bibles? Well, when we open our bibles looking for us, which is my reflex, it can become tedious, burdensome, maybe even boring? But when we open our Bibles looking for Jesus and we use this grid, you can open your Bible and ask, “How do I see Jesus promised here? How did Jesus fulfill these words that I’m reading?” That he’s patterned, we ask, “How did Jesus fulfill this?” That He’s present, we ask, “How do I see the Trinity at work here?” 

Then our time in the Word transforms. It begins with seeing the whole face of Jesus. We can open our Bibles every day, day after day, year after year, decade after decade, if the Lord gives us that much life. We can keep having those sacred, beautiful moments. “Oh, it’s You!” Let’s pray.

Jesus, thank You for giving us eyes to see; eyes to see You. There are many that still have the scales on their eyes, so to speak, and You’ve given us a gift of grace that we can open our Bibles and see You as you really are.

I pray for myself and I pray for every woman listening that we would see You more and more, and that in seeing You more and more, we would worship You more fully. We love You, and it’s in Your name I pray, amen.

Erika: Well Erin, thank you so much for helping us find Jesus throughout the Old Testament!

Erin: Well, He makes it easy. I know you are a girl who loves your whole Bible, too.

Erika: I do.

Erin: Do you love to look for Jesus in the Old Testament already? Was that something you were doing? 

Erika: You know, the Old Testament has always been my favorite place. I love the stories.

Erin: Yeah.

Erika: I’m a story girl.

Erin: They’re rich.

Erika: They are.

Erin: I think Jesus is the story teller.

Erika: I agree. 

You mentioned that this is the ninth season of The Deep Well, and you said, “None of the seasons previously were about Jesus.” This is just my first episode of The Deep Well, and it’s an honor to be here, but I think I’m going to disagree with you on that one.

Erin: Oh good!

Erika: You taught a Deep Well season called, “Seven Feasts,” and you talked about the feasts described in Leviticus, and you showed us how Jesus fulfilled every single one of those feasts.

Erin: Mmm, you’re totally right! That was a season about Jesus! It was a season about the gospel, which, how could you talk about the gospel without talking about Jesus? But I just, as I thought about past seasons, I thought, I don’t know that we’ve talked about the character of Jesus much. That, of course, was the redemptive story that Jesus is essential to. But who is Jesus? That’s really where this one differs.

Erika: So, this is more getting to His humanity, His personality.

Erin: Right.

Erika: Okay. I guess, so yes, in that sense, this is a new season.

Erin: We’ll call it a tie.

Erika: A tie! Yeah!

Erin: A season about the gospel, and this is a season really focusing on Jesus and who He is.

Erika: Right. And to hear that last series, though, on The Deep Well, you can get the Revive Our Hearts app or visit ReviveOurHearts.com. Erin, you did write a book, a workbook on the seven feasts.

Erin: I did, and let’s pay attention to this title because it's super creative: The Seven Feasts. That’s the new workbook study!

Erika: You should be a writer, Erin. That’s amazing!

Erin: Thank you, I appreciate it!

Erika: And it’s subtitled, Finding Christ in the Sacred Celebrations of the Old Testament.

Erin: Yes, that’s the subtitle. So, it’s the same idea like what we’re doing. We’re looking for Jesus in a place where maybe you never looked for Him before.

Erika: Right.

Erin: But He’s right there.

Erika: Well Erin, I think it’s time for “Erin Unscripted.” Now, we recorded this season with an audience, and they had some good questions for you. 

Erin: They did. They had a few that I thought might stump me, but we stumbled through them together.

Erin Unscripted

Erika: Alright ladies, after that teaching, do you have any questions for Erin?

Carol Ann: I’m Carol Ann. Do you find that in studying the Old Testament and looking for those patterns of Jesus that you end up seeing patterns or little pictures of Jesus in your day-to-day life? And if you do, is there a dialogue that you preach to yourself or bring yourself through to highlight the character of Jesus?

Erin: He really is everywhere. Scripture tells us that. There’s nowhere we can go to escape Him. He’s everywhere. We know these big words like His omniscience, his omnipresence, and those can be hard to apply in the minutia of my life. Where’s the omnipresence of God as I’m doing chores that are routine? Where’s the omnipresence of God as I’m sitting at my desk writing? But He is there. And I think realizing that, that He permeates my life and that He’s always there, is such a comfort. 

Romans 1 tells us the invisible nature of God is visible in what He’s made. So for me, anytime I go outside it’s such a help to be like, where do I see Jesus Creator God in this? He made all of this. This is all for Him. So, the birds are singing, “Chirp, chirp, chirp.” They’re not just heralding spring; they’re worshiping Jesus. The flowers are blooming; they’re not just being beautiful, which they are, they’re worshiping Jesus. And so, I think I see Him most often in the world that He’s made, and it’s just given me an attentiveness to Him. 

I’m a born navel-gazer, we kind of all are. I have a propensity to just keep my nose to the grindstone all the time. I always say that’s why my nose is stubby, because it’s always to the grindstone. But when you’re looking for Him, it lifts your head. Where is He? Where do I see Him working? What do I see about the world He’s made? You know, non-Christians can look at the world and in their hearts think, What in the world is God doing? Christians can look at the world and say, “What is God doing in the world today?” And that’s going to naturally move us toward worship. 

So, I don’t know that it’s a direct line from what I read in the Bible that day to what I experience that day, but I think a good Bible study is going to have you looking for Him everywhere. And you’ll see Him. That's why He says, “If you seek you will find. I’m everywhere! If you knock I’m going to open the door. I’m waiting for you to knock.” He is everywhere. He’s not hard to find. And so, Bible study gives you those muscles, I guess, to look for Him.

Woman: This kind of goes along with what you were saying about seeing Jesus in your everyday life, but I also think that in Scripture we see Him not just through people but through other things as well. He’s our Passover Lamb. We see the Passover lamb but Jesus is the better Passover Lamb. He’s the door, the door of the ark that opens and saves people. And then another person that I don’t think you mentioned that I like to think about is that he’s the greater Hosea, where he tells Hosea to go and marry a prostitute and then pursue her with love even though she continues to be unfaithful to him. And Jesus does that for us, even when we’re unfaithful every day. He still pursues us with love.

Erin: Yeah, that’s a beautiful example. And you’re right, Jesus Himself would often point to natural objects or phenomena and say, “I’m that.” You know, He is the light, for example. He is the Rock. He’s the Bread of Life. He’s the Fountain of Living Water. And so, I think He was teaching us, “Look around! See Me in the world I’ve made. That’s why I’ve made it this way so that you’ll see Me.” So again, it just becomes a treasure hunt.

Erika: As a mom, when we’re teaching our kids about the Bible, how do we incorporate Jesus into these Old Testament stories?

Erin: Well, I think it starts with a commitment as moms to teach the whole Bible. And that can be tricky because there could be parts of the Bible that feel uncomfortable, and are our kids developmentally or emotionally ready to hear some of the stories? But in picking and choosing, “Oh we’re going to tell them this part of the Bible and we’re not going to tell them this part of the Bible,” we’re really editing the whole counsel of God He’s given us. So as a mom you’ve got to be comfortable with the uncomfortable and just say, “This is what I know; this is what I don’t know.” I always tell my kids, “I reserve the right to say I don’t know.” Because there are some things I don’t know when it comes to the Bible. 

But there is a resource that I love that we’ve read with all of our kids. It’s The Jesus StorybookBible. And the idea of that resource is Jesus is there, in all of it, which is what we’ve been talking about. Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth actually sent me a copy of that when my first child was born. The binding is falling off of that, but Nancy’s little note is still on the first page. We’ve read that over and over and over. I think I’ve done pretty well at asking my kids when we read the Bible, “Where’d you see Jesus there? How could that be about Jesus? What does that make you think about Jesus?” 

At our house, in the car ride home from church, they always know they’re going to get asked, “What did you learn?” And they always know they can’t tell me, “I don’t know,” or “Nothing.” And so that is our debrief time. All four boys have to have an answer. So, it can just become a part of your family dialogue. For me, it’s so exciting to see Jesus in the Old Testament and to help them see that. I hope we’re just talking about Him all the time. What better thing to talk about with our kids than Jesus? Starting there with creation, I mean, what Christian parent hasn't taught their kids the creation story? So right there you’re teaching them that God made everything. You can say, “And Jesus was there! Here’s how I know that.” So, I think it just makes it natural, because it is.

Erika: Word of warning. My seven-year-old is reading through the Bible. She got to Genesis, she’s like, “Mom, what’s rape?” And I’m like, “Ahhh!” 

Erin: Right.

Erika: So yeah, you do have some hard questions.

Erin: My boys have asked, “What’s circumcision?” So, we’ve had that same question. My face may have turned red, but I answered it. That’s in Scripture and not by accident. There’s not a word wasted in the Word of God. So, I think we give our kids a blessing. And we don't teach them that some parts of the Bible are too scary or too confusing for them to read.

Erika: And then how do you how to answer that question in an age-appropriate way? Because obviously, I’m not going to explain to my little ones, “Hey, this is what sodomy is or other things.”

Erin: Sure. It’s the same with everything in parenting. I’m so grateful that I have the Holy Spirit inside of me to help me parent my children and to give me guidance and give me wisdom. Scripture says when we lack wisdom, we can ask God for it and He’ll give to us generously. Wisdom is not a one-size-fits-all equation, nor are children. 

And so, we don’t always have to be so concerned about giving the right answer or the quickest answer or worried we’re going to give the wrong answer. We can say, “Let Mommy think about that,” and pray about that for a minute and then come back to it. Or we can say, “I don’t think you’re ready to know all of what that is.” There’s lots of things we do that with our kids, I hope. “Here’s what I can tell you, it’s something that’s really horrible and that breaks God’s heart and hurts people.” And that’s true and helpful. “It’s something I hope you never have to experience because it’s evil, and God hates evil.” 

I think in the same way that there are other things in the world or in the culture we shelter them from. It’s okay to give them a simple answer. But I would avoid saying, “Ah, we can’t talk about that! We don’t talk about that in this family!” or “You’re not ready for that!” That kind of thing. I think it makes it seem scary.

Erika: So, Erin, what can we expect on our next episodes?

Erin: We’re going to look at a side of Jesus that is a little bit uncomfortable. The angry side of Jesus.

Erika: Did Jesus get angry?

Erin: He did. You have to listen to find out why I think that.

Erika: The Deep Well with Erin Davis is a production of Revive Our Hearts, calling women to freedom, fullness, and fruitfulness in Christ. 

All Scripture is taken from the ESV.

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